Are your real estate business's profits suffering despite increasing top-line revenue? In our latest webinar, CINC CEO, Alvaro Erize and Verl Workman, CEO of Workman Success Systems, reveal the hidden costs behind certain lead generation strategies that could be impacting your bottom line.
They explore the dangers of relying too heavily on pay-at-close models and offer insights into alternative online lead generation strategies. Learn how these hidden costs can transform a bustling business into a money-losing venture and discover actionable strategies to diversify your lead generation efforts for sustained profitability.
Watch the video to uncover these hidden costs and gain valuable insights into optimizing your lead generation strategies for profitability.
Alvaro Erize: But what we want to talk about today is we're going to talk about how to decrease your cost per sale and have a more profitable online marketing strategy and lead generation strategy.
Verl Workman: And so many agents working with, teams or building teams or brokerage, They struggle with figuring out where to spend their money and if where they're spending their money actually works. And we are so excited to host this webinar together. We've got Alvaro with us as the CEO of CINC and CINC is a company that provides an unbelievable, And I'll say that from a, just from a coach's perspective, platform that helps so many agents, so many teams, and so many brokerages create predictable revenue because of the consistency and the lead generation that comes in and the quality of leads.
We have a bunch of people on the call who use CINC and many people who have never heard of it or aren't using it. And you'll see a little bit of strategically how Alvaro thinks and leads his team. And then we're going to talk about how to take the knowledge that he shares that you put into play as team leaders. As I get in and share some of that information.
My name is Verl Workman. I'm the CEO of Workman Success Systems and co-founder. We're a real estate coaching company that specializes in high-performing teams out of Salt Lake City, Utah. And we do teams really well. And so we're going to get into team structure and compensation and lead conversions and all of those things.
So Alvaro, first, thanks for joining me and doing this with me. I love doing these with you because we think so similarly about the business.
Alvaro Erize: I do too. And Verl, one I really enjoy spending the air time with you. It's always great discussion. But I also will say, I think at, CINC and we, of course, love our platform and we love, we try to give the best customer service we can and all of that. But we know that the success of our clients depends a lot on the coaching that they're getting. And we know that When we have a client that is being coached by the workman success, we know that the chances of succeeding with us are exponentially great because we know that it is not easy, but what we do is not, there's a lot of shops out there that want to tell you that it does, you don't need to do anything. It's a plug and play. No, we know it takes effort. That's not, that's why not everyone does it. And so having a client that is correctly coached and is correctly trained There are a chance of success with us and it makes us more valuable, which is amazing. So this is a partnership that we really enjoy.
Verl Workman: Thank you both goes. So let's talk about like, when people look at their cost per lead and how much they're really spending on leads, like they really don't understand what it really costs.
Alvaro Erize: I agree. Here's for me the first way that I would mention when I want to see whether someone is getting profitable on a per transaction basis, I always bring it back to the transaction because you can get confused in your business by having too much. You have too many levers. You're looking at too much stuff. And then you might be doing some things that are unprofitable for you, but that all in all you're done, not realizing it. And so for me, bringing it back to the transaction and trying to see that per source that you have the most critical way of you knowing whether you're going to grow.
I always tell, I see some clients sometimes grow broke, which is when they grow so much and profitably that in the end, they find themselves working three times as much and making three times less money and many times losing money. And so I think this is something that both Verl and I, as we were talking about this, I wanted to put on paper how we look at it, right?
So you get every transaction that you close. It's a happy moment, right? You get your GCI, you see how much it's coming in commission. But of course, There's some money that you already spent, that you're not seeing it there, but you've already spent that money, which is what we call lead cost per sale.
How much did you invest in getting to that closing, right? In getting those leads that got you to that closing. And that's the part that I will speak a little bit just after this section. Then, of course, you also have to pay your agent. If you're a team leader and there's an agent closing the transaction, you're going to have a certain split with them, right?
And so the question is what will how much, what are your splits? And that's something that I think Verl can talk to better than I can. And then if you subtract those two things. That gives you your gross income per sale. So if you're already negative there, then what it means is that every transaction that you make actually makes you poorer, right? And that's a terrible thing.
So those two first things are critical, because the more business that you do, if this is negative or close to negative, the poorer than you are. So that's why we wanted to put it first to go this is, you have to have, and I think Verl will talk better than me at what you should have in your gross income per sale.
And, and so that's the intermediate step, but then even if you are being profitable on a per deal basis, you still have all your overhead. And that's, again, the part that Verl will tackle better than me, which is, how much of that you should really allocate to each of these transactions, right?
Now, the good news there is if you do a lot of transactions, you get to spread that over more. And so that allows that part to come in a little bit lower, but it's still something that you should put in when you're thinking on whether, you're going to Whether this is a profitable transaction for you or not.
Verl Workman: And I'm going to share some examples too Alvaro, where we've done math with agents and they think they're making money, but then when you do their average cost per sale, it like it costs, they go up, they cost them a thousand dollars every time they sell a house. They go in the hole.
Alvaro Erize: Yes. So, that, that's what I mean. You sometimes just don't see it. If you don't take the effort of looking at it on a per transaction basis, you might have 200 transactions, you're still profitable as a team, but some of those are actually bringing you underwater, right? And especially in those two first things, that's why split commissions and lead cost per sale are so important.
If you're at a low gross income per sale, that's already killing you. What's your thought Verl, on what your total percentage should be at the gross level before you apply your overhead?
Verl Workman: You should be at 50%. After the cost of generating the lead and paying your buyer's agent. And if you're not already at 50 percent right there, then you go and do all your overhead and expenses. You're going to be running on a very, small margin. So I want you to be at a 50 percent after your cost per lead. And paying the agent.
Alvaro Erize: So if you're paying 50/50, you're already below your target because even a five or a 10 percent on lead cost per sale would put you under, right? Makes sense.
Verl Workman: You take all the risk. You're the one that has all of the all of the overhead and you're paying somebody else 60 or 70 or 80 percent of the net profit off the top. And hopefully trying to make the balance. It doesn't make any sense.
Alvaro Erize: Agreed. So with that intro, I wanted to walk into how we calculate lead cost per set, right?
Because Usually people think of cost per lead. Some people talk about ROI, but ROI is difficult to capture, to, to calculate. I tend to believe that if you just see how much of each transaction you're paying on the leads that generated that transaction, that will give you a good thing that you can compare side by side.
And so how do you calculate that lead cost per lead right now? First of all, you're going to need to know what your conversion is. And so I'm going to talk now about SEM. I'm going to talk about, mid-funnel leads, which is what CINC specializes And again, this is not a CINC webinar. You can apply this hopefully to any provider that does this well.
Now there are a lot of providers that don't do this well, but. If you have a good provider that is giving you good cost per lead and high-quality leads, I think this will, I think we're the best obviously, but I think a lot of this should apply. So for me, what we do differently than others is we actually look at data and we've looked at many, years of leads generated by CINC over 10 million given.
And I can tell you with very good certainty that a good client of mine, Can convert at 1%. Now you're going to have people out there that say 5%, 3%. When you look at the numbers in the next slide, anyone that is telling you that you're going to convert a 7 lead at 5 percent is lying to you or more probably more much more probably they just don't know there's a lot.
Of, Oh, in this industry, NAR does a survey, agents answer whatever they think. And then that gets taken as fact. And then the same people that are giving you the leads are giving you back the information that you gave NAR in a survey. Makes no sense. This is top down statistical analysis on the leads that we have generated.
And then we know our clients moved to sold when they sold. And you can see, this is a little bit of a confusing chart, but These are all my clients put side by side. The ones on the left are my best clients. From a conversion point of view. The ones to the right are the ones that are not doing that great.
So you do see that there are some clients that are converting like at 4% and some clients that might be converting at a half percent or even lower, but on average they do convert at 1%. Now, that's over a certain time, which is an important factor that we're gonna talk in a little bit, but. Bottom line, before we go into the time factor, is 1 percent good or not, is the question, right?
It sounds not that great, right? It certainly is a lot of effort. If I have to call 99 people, if I have to call 100 people to get one closing, it's a lot of effort. So is it worth my time? Let's look at that, right? If we look from cost per sale, Now, if you're paying 7 a lead and you are at a 1 percent conversion, that means that you have a hundred sale, a hundred leads that you're having to pay for in order to have one closing.
Now, again, some of you, especially seeing clients may tell me but on top of that, I'm paying the platform. Okay. The reason that I don't have the platform here is because that's a fixed cost, which will go back to what Verl is going to talk at the end, which is you're over it, right? Because bottom line is you pay the same, whether you're doing a lot of deals or less.
So it is important. It's a real cost, but it's one that does not get paid again every time that you want to do one more transaction. Now, if you want to spend more on lead gen and you want to see whether you're going to get your money back, this is the part where you see, this is the variable cost of getting one extra deal.
So if you want an extra deal deal with CINC, you're going to buy a hundred extra leads and that's going to cost you 700. But that's actually very good, right? In today's world where the average GCI is 14, 000, all of this is average across markets. So cost per lead varies a lot. Commissions vary a lot.
I'm using approximate numbers, right? But you can see that basically. If you're paying 7 a lead and you're converting one in a hundred, you're spending 700 to get 14, 000 for your team, but we'll go to the item 14, 000 for your team. That means that you're only paying 5 percent of the total GCI of the transaction on LCPS on lead generation cost per lead.
What's interesting here is we always, so just from a rule of thumb perspective, and this ties into what you're saying, I hope is that if you spend a dollar on advertising or marketing, we want to show that you're getting a minimum of a six X return. 100 spent on, or let's say 700 spent on CINC leads.
Six seven is 5, 400 in return. Are you getting your six X? You're getting double that you're getting 12 X. And so that's a good indicator that you have a good lead source or a good cost lead cost per sale. And it's really important that you understand that math. Most people spend money in dollars in marketing and advertising, and they don't know what that cost per lead is.
And they don't know what the ROI is on that cost either. So this is such a, it's such a valuable way of looking at leads. I think it's brilliant. Yeah. So if you were looking at an ROI, like you're saying, it's This is a 20 time return, right? You spend 700 and you get 40, 000. That's a 20-time, which is huge, but it's sometimes difficult to compare by turning it into a percentage.
We just gave you something that is easy to compare. That closing with a good SCM provider, if you're doing your job which is not easy to do. Should be costing you 5 percent of the total transaction cost, which is awesome. Right now, let's compare a little bit about what we believe.
And again, we do have the questions and answers, feel free to jump in. We're going to leave time for that at the end, but if something pops up, we can always Merced it. But one important thing before I compare it to other sources is time. You do have to know that it does take time, but it probably takes less time than you think.
Most people have been trained to believe that you only start closing, nine months down the road from when you're spending on SEM. That is not true. Actually 60, 60, 40 percent of all closings will happen within the first six months of you spending the money. Now, that doesn't mean that you can forget about following up because then you'll only be making half the money that you should, right?
But it does mean that it's going to have an immediate impact if you do changes on your spend You will have half of that impact is going to happen in the next six to eight months, right? Now if I have any new clients there, they're going to tell me well But i've i've been at CINC for six months I haven't closed yet.
The confusing part there is Your leads didn't come all in this first day. You had a few leads on the first day. You get some on month two, some on month three. So to gather enough leads where the one in a hundred starts making sense, you're already at month three or four. And if you count six months from that's why that sweet spot that a new client starts closing business as eight or nine months, but once you're in the role.
So really what you're spending should be coming back to you that first half should come in the first six to eight months, and then you keep making money on those same leads for three years, right? And it is important to get to that one, get to one 1 percent conversion, you're going to have to be in a two or second or third year at SAIC, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't be converting before.
Now let's see how that compares to, to, to other sources. So again, I put on the left. the best source of all, which is your own team referrals, right? You don't pay anything for it. That's a lie, right? You've paid a lot for that. You've paid your own personal effort, your history, my girl will tell me, absolutely.
You're paying a lot for it, right? But from a, particularly now to get this transaction, you didn't have to pay for leads there, right? So it's a great transaction that has a 0%. Lead cost per sale. If you could do double of those, I would tell you go do that, right? Those are the ones that you have to work weekends if you want more of them, right?
Because it's your own personal time that you don't have infinite of, right? And so for me, this is the CINC the CINC typical return, right? Again, 7 per lead, 1 percent conversion, you're paying 700, that's a 5 percent of your total transaction. But even if you're only getting a half a percent conversion which is, as you saw is at the bottom rung of where our clients are, you're still not in a bad deal.
Like you're spending, you're having to buy 200 leads to get one sale, which means you're spending 1, 400, which is a 10 percent of your total. So if you're back in Verl's example where he was mentioning, Hey, maybe you should have a 60, 40 split, this still gets you within his 50%. Objective, right? Your, lead cost per sale is still not above 10%.
And so something that a lot I sometimes talk to my clients that are obsessed with getting their conversion better is honestly, once I get you to our, once you get, I get you, Verl gets you, once you get to a 1 percent conversion, I'd rather you do more than better because you're fighting to get super good, to get, squeeze a little bit out more of their leads, Once you're only paying 5 percent of your transaction on a deal, just do more of it, right?
But let's look at, others. It's, oh, sorry, Ronald. No, I was going to say is you, once you understand the math, you can scale to any size you want. Lead generation, what you have to understand in this business, and this is why everybody is so confused right now, is that lead generation creates predictable results if you track the right things.
But if you don't, then you run around like chickens with your head cuts off trying to You know, try the next best thing. And the reality is if you consistently work the same system, it just get better at your conversion. Even at half a percent, you're getting you're getting a great return on your money and time.
And you can do more, right? Yep. Finally, when you check out chickens with the first time, when I was. Not long in the U. S. I used the expression in a big meeting where I went we cannot go running like headless chickens and everyone laughed. I thought that was the right translation of the expression.
It's close. It's close. It's close. I was not that far. But one of the that I want to compare to is Zillow leads or high hand racers leads that are later on the funnel that are 1 month away. Those feel better, right? Your conversions are higher. They feel better on the phone. Are they better for you? It depends a lot on two things and conversion and cost per lead.
And so I put here, I have different clients reporting different conversions of Zillow. Some of my own more optimistic clients tell me, yes, I converted 10 percent at Zillow. Okay. I don't challenge that because again, they know their business, not me. But a 10% conversion in sale is still not that great if you're paying $400 per lead, right?
So if you're paying $400 for a lead and you convert a 10%, you still pay $4,000 per sale, which by this same math means you are spending 30% of all your your money that's coming in from this transaction only on the leads that got generated forward. And if you convert that 5%, which is, I think what some more realistic clients have to say, then you're certainly underwater because at 5 percent it means you need 20 leads for converting one, which if you're paying 400 the lead, that's 8, 000 that you're paying per sale.
That's 60, almost 60 percent of your GCI just going out the door, just on lead gen. After that you pay an agent, you're already underwater, right? So what sometimes feels good is not necessarily good. Now, again, if you convert Zillow leads, At 20 or 30 percent, you can do this equation yourself. So I'm not saying SILO leads should or should not.
What I think is you need to know your conversion and back into how much you're paying actually on per cell that you're doing. Yeah, that's right. A lot of people, and this really isn't even talking about like a flux program where they're taking 40 percent off the top. You get a referral based lead. It's 40%.
So your cost release 40%, you just know that's what it is, which is right in between these two. So it's an interesting. I have that in the next slide. Yeah. Okay. I knew it was coming. But, I get so excited but this one's like even the traditional silo model, again, it's all about your conversion.
If you tell me you're converting Zillow leads at 20 to 30%, okay. Or if you tell me that you're buying Zillow leads at a hundred dollars, okay. But if you're paying 400 and converting a 10%, you're underwater with it. And that's something that I need. You to think about and decide for your own, whether that's working for you or not, it feels better, but does that mean that it's better for you?
Usually those two things are not correlated, food included and other stuff. So I'll move to the next, but then what about the, Hey, I don't pay anything upfront. Zillow just does it for me. And then I pay a referral fee. And look, I have that model itself with Agent Pronto Pronto with CINC. I'll talk I don't think you should grow through that model.
You can have a few of those of those transactions, but in the long run, they're not going to let you grow a team. I call it the team killer because Zillowflex is taking a 40 percent referral fee, right? And you have one of two options. You're either eating it as a, team leader, which is the option on the left, or you're sharing it with the agent, which is the option on the right.
So the option on the left. Okay. So if you're eating it, you're paying 40%. If on top of that, you're paying a 50 percent split to your agent. You're a 90 percent out. No, the transaction should from day one. So you could do a hundred of those transactions. The overhead is going to kill you. You're going to be unprofitable.
That's what I call growing broke. You're going to grow into being broke. And that's something that's going to happen. The more deals that you make, the more money that you lose, right? But many team leaders will tell me now, no, I'm not that now. Come on. I split the referral fee. With the agent, right? First, the revolving comes out and then we apply the split, right?
Okay. Yes. In that case, you're still paying 20 percent of LCPS. So remember when you were compared against an SEM, that 20 percent means it's four times more expensive than every time that you close an SEM lead, right? Four times more expensive. And that's on your side. On top of that, though, you're charging a 20 percent that goes out of the, agent.
So if the agent is on a 50 50 split, or let's say a 60 40 split like, Verl was saying, if on top of that, they have to pay 20 percent to Celo, they're left with 20 percent of their transaction. And this is what I've heard from so many clients in the last year that I hadn't heard before. Oh, my agents leave me after a year.
I've always heard from clients. My agents leave me after five years. And I always say, Hey, you're, if you did good for them and they did good for you in that time, you got a lot of value, you should be happy with that. Try to keep them. But I understand. But with but with, sorry with, with a deal like this.
Were they making 20 or 30 percent on a per transaction? Those people are going to want to leave early and you've trained them that you're actually not adding that much value to them. You've told them, because why does someone join a team? Oh, I cannot buy my own leads. I don't have the resources. I don't have the technology.
So I joined this team. I get coached, I get the leads and I get follow up from an ISA that helps me out. Now, if Zillow is buying the leads and if Zillow is doing the follow up and you're not doing anything, I understand that feels great. But in the end, you need to know that you're not adding value to your agent.
And so you're telling the agent that they're going to have to make only 20 or 30 percent on a per transaction basis. And they know that they can leave tomorrow and join. Oh, Joe home light agent advice. There's 10 different ones that will take them in the try on their own. And so that for me, it's a different way of killing the team.
It's not your. You're less unprofitable. You're more on the margin there, but you have agents coming in and out. And that's my general conclusion, which is if you use this as a, some low hanging fruit from some agents that you want to help a little bit with an easy closing, that's okay. And, if you want it as a compliment for your team.
I understand, but if you're going to grow your team through aggressive use of this, including agent pronto, so pronto, so at CINC clients, this service. And I tell clients don't depend on it. This is. This is something that you do that it's easier. It's not good for you but it's good. It feels good. It helps you, reinforce some agents and get some extra transactions, but there's not good transactions that are good for you because you're not making money and the agent is not making money because the person doing, therefore it is making the money, which is in this case, Zillow, right?
What's interesting is when I think it's crack. It feels good in the moment that it comes in. When you look at your P and L at the end of the year, there's nothing left. And even though you sold a few things. And I, thanks for laughing at that, Heather. Sorry, it feels good while you're doing it.
I don't know. I've never actually done crack, but I've heard this and seen it in the movies feels good while you're doing it. But then in the end, you realize all your teeth are falling out. And so is your hair. And like the, moment that you got addicted to it, like leads come in and they sell.
But you're not making any money. And the only number that really matters when we're doing our businesses and is your net profit. And it's how much you have at the end of the month, quarter a year, and not enough people give there's no awards for that. I actually pitched to one of the national brand CEOs that instead of doing awards, we should do net profit awards because 90 percent of the people walking across the stage can't afford the tux they're renting to get their award and they shouldn't be spending money on that.
So many clients that I've said when they're about to like just add agents and grow, I'm like, remember always that there's a big chance that you're going to be making less money out of it, right? And so be careful about growth too. And I have a quick answer. So Richard that I think if I interpret your question correctly, you've been getting a lot of leads from saying, but you haven't been able to convert them.
You've been calling like crazy. You've been doing the and look, every time I do a webinar, we'll have Bunch of clients that go Oh, I love it. And then I've closed so much business with saying, I'm like, I, people that are super and others that are like, especially in the first year or two, Hey, I'm struggling.
I'm trying it. This is not easy. This is why we say, and I don't know, Richard, if you're a coach or not, if you have this is when. A coach helps, right? We, I think, have some resources for it. So we have, online conversion day, which I recommend. You can go there and you will be calling side by side with other people.
You're going to hear the appointments being like, you're going to see it and taste it. And that helps a lot, but there's no replacement to have an actual coaching that will get you through that. But I can tell you, and again, I have too many clients here that would not allow me to lie, is. It works. I, out of looking at the numbers, I've looked at 10 million leads, 1 percent of those leads closed with a client that had that lead.
And but the question is, why not to me? And there could be the market this or the market that, but my most general rule of thumb is, coach clients have the training to do the conversion We try to do things as easy as we can for you, but it takes knowledge objection handling all those things So I would recommend but of course also our team can be in perp in contact and we're happy To give all the resources we can to help i'll i'll share a few things that we can do and the way that we communicate with our clients one of the big things is that we think that our job is to convert the lead and the moment you put your sales hat on and you start making calls with the attitude that I need to convert this into an appointment you lose your value in the relationship.
And so I'm going to talk a little bit as we get into this, I'm going to talk about how do we message to people to get them off the sidelines and actually engaged with you. And I use a philosophy called S R O. It stands for serve regardless of opportunity. And I'm going to give you some specific things you can do to serve and the message to your clients that get them engaged.
And I think you'll appreciate that as we get into it. And I think from my point of view, I had a few more slides of how many leads per client, but I think the concept of what I wanted to explain is as well. So if you want to transition to your side, but I'm also going to be reading a little bit of the chat and see if any questions came out of it so that we can answer them at the end.
But do you want to transition to your part? If you want to stop share. Yep, I'll stop share and so what's happened is and so alvaro, I think you've set this up perfectly to talk about understanding that you can generate leads at any level You want when you understand your cost per lead per sale?
What percent of the sale is your lead cost going to be? Then you can scale. So whether you have one agent or five agents or 10 agents, it doesn't matter. It's the processes you put in place to make sure that you convert. And we've gone from a, what I'll call an activity based market. Let me share with you my screen to what's now called a skills based market.
So here's what that means. And Alvaro, you've seen the slide before, but I want to reiterate this because. It used to be that if we showed up and we just did the right thing, we could fog a mirror, you could sell a house. All of a sudden there's high inflation, higher interest rates, the class action lawsuit, we have all of these things unstable, Global wars that are happening around the world.
There's all this stuff that's happening And a lot of people are struggling figuring out whether they should sell or not sell should I move or not move? But the life events that continue to happen are they continue to occur that cause them to need to move They get relocated. They get married. They get divorced.
They upsize they downsize They want their kids to play sports in different areas. We're moving From we've moved. If you haven't noticed from an action based market to what I call is a skills based market. And if you've been in this business for less than 10 years, you don't know what it's like to be in a hard market.
And so a skills based market is when we can't be the same as we were a year ago, or 2 years ago and expect To get the same result, we have to do more. Here's some numbers that'll show you that. So in 2019, in doing lead follow up and calling, it took 167 calls to get a closing in twenty twenty, a hundred thirty four.
It got easier in twenty twenty one, a hundred twenty seven. In 2022, it went back up again. It got hard again. Five. And by 2023, we're all the way. It's over almost a hundred dials more to get the same closing as it did in 2019. You can't do the same thing and expect you're going to get the same result. We have to do more.
And so we have to generate more leads. We have to have more calls. We have to have more conversations and we have to serve the market more. And if you come in with the attitude that you're going to serve, regardless of opportunity, what will happen is, it'll change the engagement you have with your clients.
Does anybody, does this ring true with anybody? And I see all of Alvaro's nodding like, are you seeing that? That it like, like what you did a year ago is not working today. We got to do it differently. But yet we continue doing the same thing. So what do we do? So the first thing is, and I hope that this was really clear with Alvaro.
Sure. One thing, just before you keep going, what's crazy is, The number of calls goes up the conversion has held true And so when we look at the numbers overall conversion is not down and it's down 10 percent But people feel like the conversion has not 50 It's not the effort or the strategies have changed, right?
Yeah what we're saying how we're saying it maybe the length the lead it takes to convert changes, but the percentages conversion ratio We're actually converting higher today than we did two years ago, because we're changing our messaging, we're using emotional intelligence to get people off of the sidelines and reengaged.
And that's a it's a, it's an art. It's strategic. It's not you just hope it happens. Here's some numbers Alvaro, when you talked about numbers, I thought it's brilliant taking the cost lead for sale. Here's what I do with my numbers. If you understand these numbers, you understand what works.
Number one is for every, listing you get, you should close 1. 5 by side transactions. Listings create more opportunities because it gives you the ability to mark around the property. And CINC property. And CINC has all of tools to help you with your marketing efforts. Somebody asked earlier, Alvaro why don't you take the cost of the platform in your cost per lead?
And my response to them was it's because your CRM does so many other things and you have to use it for all of the different ways of generating revenue from your CRM, not just in your cost per lead. So it gives you a false sense of what the value is. And I agree with that. So I do believe, Hey, we're doing much more than just the leads but on a second on a follow up to that.
Also, the big difference is that the that the CINC cost of the is fixed, right? So that will go actually into what we're all is going to talk to you about your overhead. Which what means is that's still a cost and it's very real and you need to take it into account, but it's not a cost that you'll pay more in order to get one more transaction.
So when you're thinking, where do I put my next lead gen dollar? You're already paying for CINC. This, paying for CINC. This, my webinar is not to argue whether you should have CINC or should have CINC or not. You already have CINC, right? Or else doing it. It's do, should you spend on legion on SEM or not? And for that, the cost of the platform, it's going to confuse you.
You put out up there because you're not going to pay it again. So put the things in the right buckets. The cost of the platform ball real has to be in the overhead, which is real cost. But one that gets smaller the more transactions that you have. We'll divide that out and I'll show you.
So as we go into one listing equals one and a half buy sides, every listing you generate, create six to eight leads. Every 25 leads, we had a buyer agent. There's a formula for predictable success in your teams. Alvaro, you had a slide in your deck that you didn't get to that talked about can an agent handle 50 leads?
If they have 50 this month and they have 100 next month and then 150 in three months and then 200 and in four months, they don't have the ability to convert. And so our rule of thumb is if we know that we can generate 100 leads a month of CINC, I month of CINC, I need four working those 100 leads because 25, every 25 leads, I had a buyer's agent and it's just a formula.
And we teach them to be better at it. Just remember that if you want to double your income, you have to understand what generates leads, how to add the right people on a, generation perspective. So here's an example. If you as a listing partner, if you're the team leader and you list and you generate 36 listings, that's about 324, 000 in income, 10 listings is going to generate six to 80 leads a month, which means I need three buyers agents. agents.
You had CINCed to that. four more buyers agent. Here's my buyer agent splits. So buyers agents, I now Alvaro said, I was going to talk about this. I want you to understand that we do, skilled pricing for our buyers agents. They get 40 percent on the first two deals they do in a month, 45 percent on deals three and four, and then 50, 50 on deals five plus, I want you to be at a 50 percent gross profit after your cost of sale.
Meaning the cost of lead generation and the cost of your split. And if you start at 50 and if you end up at 50 percent there, you're going to be golden and we'll be able to reinvest in more leads. We'll be able to reinvest in, client care and support and making sure the client has great, amazing experiences.
And this shows if you have a listing partner and you're paying 25 or 30 percent to your listing partner, how you can get to an additional 700, 000 in income just by having the right structure in place. Most people don't have the right structure. And the other thing is they don't think about their pillars of income.
And so if I want to keep four, now you're going to learn, this is a little bit of my whack brain, but whenever I'm thinking about how do I grow a business, when I'm looking at a high performer, a team leader, that's struggling, it's usually because they put all their eggs in one basket. And so if I had one pillar of income, let me use the next slide.
This is probably a better way to show it. How many times you run into anybody that says, Oh I'm all referrals, Alvaro, I get all my business from referrals. I don't need lead generation. That's a pillar of income and i'm a big brian buffini fan and so he's a competitor But i'm a fan of what he teaches and so I like him as an individual I like the company and the culture that they have and so they do sphere of influence really well And so if I want to build a business that generates five hundred thousand dollars in income I know that I can follow my top 50 or my SOI program and I can build out a plan that generates 500, 000.
I also know that other people's failures are opportunities for me to take market share. And so expired listings for sub I owners notice as a default the things that are going on out there, I will invest in resources to generate 500, 000 out of that pillar. And then I look at my online lead generation.
I look at CINC leads I look at CINC leads and so how many leads do I have to be able to. Generate in order to make 500, 000 and it's just math and then I do the math on it. And then I say, okay, now i'm going to do open houses. I'm going to generate 500, 000 there So if I want to make 500, 000 a year What we teach and coach to is you have to have four pillars and each one of the pillars Has to generate a hundred percent of your income goal Now this is a little bit whack way of looking at it But if you go after your goal four times what the actual goal is What do you think your chance hitting the goal is alvaro?
You Yeah, much better chance, right? Because you can fail at all four and still succeed, right? I call it failing up And so I always if if you're always hitting your goals, you're a sandbag or stop setting such low goals I want you to set your goals far beyond what you believe is possible because I believe you can hit any number It's just a net matter of doing the activities that generate predictable results Greatness and success in real estate even in this market is predictable if you track the right things This is a kind of a recruiting funnel.
If you'll have a look at this, and you look at how we generate seven figure businesses, I look at my recruiting funnel. If you're a broker owner, a team leader, I look at the individual that comes in. I say, okay, what's best for them. Now, when you think about new agents that come into business, the one thing they lack is money.
They don't have any money. They spent, they just went to real estate school. They joined the MLS. Now they're looking for a broker and they don't have any money. So what we do is we put them into a scenario or put them into a situation that leads with revenue. We want them to get to revenue as fast as possible.
And sometimes that's having them be a showing assistant at 25 bucks an hour. If I'm generating three or 400 sink leads a month, I can't get out and show all those properties, my buyers agents. I want them to show houses, write contracts and negotiate offers. Showing properties is a 25 an hour activity and it allows my newbies to have to learn the market to get out there and open Doors and to understand the relationship with the client, but then I have my closers come in and finish doing the contract So it allows me to lead with revenue with a showing assistant and then they get assigned to a buyer's agent So this is a structure when you look at it when you start becoming very successful as a team leader What happens is you have to either be you either become a broker owner?
You are one Or you partner with your broker owner. And then what happens is, your agents get to a place where when they stop seeing the opportunity to grow, they leave you. And so we create an environment where we partner with them in building their own teams within the brokerage. And we have teams now that have teams within their teams.
And so there's all of this opportunity that helps when Alvaro, when you talked about the great team killer is leads get shut off. You're, buying leads, you're getting addicted to the crack of the leads coming in. You're doing them on almost no margin at all. And there's high turnover reason.
People leave is because they stop seeing opportunity. They don't see that there's any more opportunity for them to be able to grow. People leave leaders. They don't leave teams. And so if people are leaving you. Get the mirror out, look in the mirror and say, okay, what is happening? That is causing my people to leave from a leadership role.
And so there's a few things that we do from a profitability standpoint. And one is this, we make sure that. That agent sign a 10 things to be on my team contract that says they're going to do a minimum of 24 transactions a year, two deals a month, a listing partner. I want to do 60 deals, whatever the commission is you charge, whatever you charge.
I'm not going to dictate that, but the team's portion of the commission with one listing partner and three buyers agents is 700, 000. I never want you to forget that. Okay. So I want to go into, so when I do, and I talked about a 40, 60 split on the first two deals. 45. 55 for the second two and then 50. 50 for five plus.
What that gives you is it gives you cushion and margin to be able to play with your cost per lead and maintain that 50 percent cost of sale after paying your agent and paying your lead cost. Does that make sense? And so if you start at 50 50 Alvaro, this is crazy You don't know how many people I talk to where they say I pay my agents I don't want them to leave so I pay them like 80 percent or 70 percent And if they bring it in the sales, they get 95 percent.
I'm like, okay, so let's think about 80 percent on the team leads. Yep. Yep But they sell lots of houses and they get awards. They have really nice plaques on their wall. They grow broke And they realize that if they don't do any personal production, there's no profitability. And if they do personal production, they're subsidizing their agents, right?
They're, selling homes so that they can allow their agents not to sell homes. I talked to a team leader the other day that had four kids, Alvaro, and we did the math to figure out their average cost per sale, which is the calculation you went through. And then we took all the overhead and we divided it by the number of transactions and their average cost per sale was 4, 200.
Wow, they were paying 70 30 splits to their agents and they were keeping. Yep. They were keeping 3, 000 in company dollar after paying for their lead cost overhead and split. So every time they sold a house, they lost 1, 200. It's every single time they sold a house. They lost 200. And and maybe this is why people need coaches because I said to them.
So I want you to bring up a picture of your 4 kids and I want you to put their college right college weddings. travel, all the things you want to do as a family. And every time you sell a house, I want you to reach into one of their college funds and give it to your agents. Because every time you sell a house, you take 1, 200 out of your children's financial future, and you give it to other agents for the opportunity to get a plaque on your wall.
And you're doing a lot for them, right? And but again, that's why I say there's no free lunch, right? If you're taking a, like a referral, like a Zillow Flex lead, then you're not doing a lot for them. You're just a middleman in the middle. And so it's logical that you won't make a lot of profit. But if you have a team where you're coaching them to do the hard thing, which is called where you're maybe putting an ISA in place where you're paying for a CINC platform paying for a CINC platform tracks, where you're doing all that work.
Then of course you need to take it's also in their best interest that you take your dues so that you can be profitable You can reinvest in the business and give them more of that good business where they're making money, too that's right So I want to i'm going to shift if I can our conversation To what do we say to people when the leads come in?
How do we convert more leads and i've learned that there's a couple of things that make a big impact on lead conversion The first one's this We can't sound like everybody else You can't call and say, Oh, Hey, I noticed you're on my website. As one, if you some more properties, set you up on auto hot sheet so you can get automated properties.
You know who you sound like everybody and their dog who has a website. And so you can't sound like everybody else. You have to have proprietary language and you have to have messaging that makes people lean in and go wait, tell me more about that. What do you have that's unique or different that makes people lean in?
And so we've created some programs and I'm going to give you some of these. The first one is this one, it's called the interest rate offset program. When you're talking to people and you're talking about buying a home right now, one of the questions I like to ask is what are the things that have kept you from buying a home in the last 60 to 90 days?
And what is the first thing they'll tell you? Oh the interest rates have been too high. I was in the market six months ago and now rates are so high that I can't afford to buy a house. I'll say, oh my gosh, I totally understand how you feel. Have you heard about our interest rate offset program? And they go, you're what?
Oh yeah, it's a whole program that we have that offsets the difference of the interest rate from when you first came in the market, where the interest rates are today. And my job is your buyer's agent is to get as much of that as possible. We give you a story and then we give you a calculator to calculate the interest rate offset.
And let's see. We changed my slide on it.
Okay. Let me go back up on here. All right. So it's hard to see on this one. So if you look really small, the interest rate offset system, if you look at the picture on the right, it's a calculator. It says that the price was 425 and your down payment was 20, 20%. This is what your loan amount was. Here's your, loan.
It was a four and a quarter. When you came into the marketplace and your principal interest is 1600. If you look below that, I'm going to show this to you differently. I'm just going to blow this up a bit so you can see it like this. That better. Yeah, I can read it at least so now you look at below it says, okay Now rates are six and a quarter.
The new monthly payment is two thousand We know that every five to seven years you're either going to move or rates are going to change You'll be able to refinance so I don't need to offset the difference for the next 20 years or 30 years I only need to offset the next seven years So I took the difference of 400 times it by seven, and that's a 35, 000 difference.
So my job is your buyer's agent is to look for ways that we can offset 35, 000. We can do it with interest rate buy downs. We can do it with seller concessions. We can do it with bill or builder incentives. There's all these different ways we can do it. And so we provide you with a script dialogue and a process.
To be able to offset the difference between where rates are now and where they were in the past. So when you say, Oh, have you heard about my interest rate offset? They go, no, you lean, in. I love it when stuff comes up right now, by the way, do you guys like that one? Give me some love.
Man, I want that big V and if you give it to you. Awesome. I don't want to miss all this great info from there. You go. I'll stay. Did I pronounce that right? Five hour energy yet. So let me give you another one. This one's called the class action advantage. How many of you are like literally concerned about the class action lawsuit?
What's going to happen in June July when they accept or don't accept all of the copycat lawsuits that are going, all the brands paying out millions of dollars. I like, look, whenever there's massive threats or change in business, it always creates an opportunity for new business models to arise.
And there's people who take advantage of threats and there's people who go away silently off, never be heard from. You are at a critical point in real estate right now, where you get to choose. Do you want to lean in and take market share and let the class actually become an advantage in the way you do business?
Or do you want to sit back and wait and see to see what happens and quietly go away? Never to be heard from again. I choose to grow my market share. In the midst of threats. Anybody want to come along for the ride? Anybody want to let's go come on coach put me in if you're on the edge of the bench and you're like come on let's go here's the class action advantage.
So we created the class advantage system. I'm gonna give you this to download it. I want you to read the story where it talks about what's happened with the class action. The fact sheet of what all of the things that have happened to now. And then there's three or four pages of here's what you should now consider doing to make sure you're put in a position to be able to kick butt.
We also create both buyer agent scripts and seller agent scripts. So when the class action comes up, you've practiced what to say and how you're going to say it. So it doesn't become a problem. One of the issues we're having, we have when we're doing conversion of leads. Is we try to overcome objections and I don't want you to do that anymore.
I want you to give people choices I want you to give them information that allows them to make a choice right now They're not moving forward because they don't think they have a choice But when you use these shift modules like the class action advantage, here's another one. It's my favorite called hidden gems.
You can use something like the hidden gems. There's all these things on the marketplace. We might be able to get you into a home where you can do a quick qualifying. We can do an assumable rate mortgage. There's VA loans that are out there. You can assume there's all these hidden gems in the marketplace.
I'm going to give you a story of an agent who went through and discovered there's hidden gems. I give you the guide to identifying where the hidden gems are. And then I give you scripts so that when someone says, I don't think I can buy right now. You say, Oh, Alvaro, have you heard about my hidden gem system?
Okay. And you're like, my what? Oh, my hidden gems. And then you lean in and go for it. And so anonymous attendee from Canada, I will tell you that you have to play with the dialogue. And so we do, we have lots of clients in Canada and the United States. Some of them work, some of them don't, but the same principles apply.
And those principles are, we use emotional intelligence languaging to get people to move from being stuck to feeling optimistic and going forward. Alvaro talked about coaching. There's a reason our coaches grow in year one, 65%. In year two, they grow 137 percent by year three. And by year five, they've grown 241%.
And we can show you time after time, that greatness is predictable, but you got to plug in. And we're constantly changing what we say and how to say things. Here's my, Summary of what we've talked about today and then i'm going to give you a qr code You can download the scripts and stuff i've shared with you.
Number one is my question to you is Are you ready to truly develop as a high performer and a team leader? I'm like, I'm asking you that. I want you to really answer me because if you're not ready yet, it's okay. Like I, there's a place for you. We've got programs for you, but if you really want to take it to another stratosphere in the midst of all the uncertainty in the marketplace, you have to get your head in the game and you got to stop worrying about what everybody else is doing.
You can find real solutions. We've got companies like sink that can generate leads at any level we want to in our business. We know we can get a predictor return. We can always get six extra more in return, even if we suck at conversion at 50 percent of that, a 1 percent that Alvaro talked about second was number two.
So real solutions like sink. Number three is we have to lead with revenue, not expense. We need to look at your business. We need to say, okay, where's the money buckets. That you're generating that you should, you're already currently generating revenue from that. You're not converting. Let's fix that problem before we turn up any spend number.
Number four is you've got to measure the right things that which gets measured gets done. If you don't measure the right things like cost per lead, cost per sale, net profit, you're not going to be successful and you have to get laser focused on money making activities. What I mean by that is, Is when you look at your day, how much of your day do you actually spend doing things that generate income?
My guess is probably 78 of our day is spent doing other things that keep us busy But don't move the needle from an income generating perspective And then the last is this is not the time to run around the room and yell affirmations in the mirror and say, I can do it. We are in a skills based market.
And if your coach is not tactical and they're not developing and training you and your team with the skills, you need to be able to dominate in this market. It might be time to, you look for a different solution. I'm not that coach. I'm not the guy that again, to tell you, you can do it, believe in yourself.
Although I do believe those things, I just want you to get tactical. Figure out what you do and then go to work. Here's your download everybody grab your cameras and grab this right now I'm sure april or one of my awesome team members will put this in the chat right here But i'm going to give you the class action advantage the interest rate offset the hidden gem system I'll give you the entire system the in the system the tool you need And to be able to have the conversations with your clients, just go out and follow the program and do it.
And last but not least, I like, if you don't currently have a coach, I do a consult with us, raise your hand and say, I need someone to help me. Like I'm ready to get some help in this marketplace. Thanks for Roseanne. And one of my team will reach out to you, make sure that you do the QR download and request a consult.
And we're not, a hard sell company. What we'll do is we'll have a conversation with you. We'll look at where you are. Determine where you want to go. We'll identify where the gaps are. We'll put a plan together. And if it makes sense, we work together. That's a great thing. And I look forward to doing that.
Let's take a second. If we can Alvaro and answer any questions that might come up. I appreciate everything you shared with cost per lead and cost per sale and profitability. Hope this has been valuable to everybody on the call. Yeah. And I had one, I think people have been like yaying and clapping as you talk.
So I think it's really valuable for them. And I think it's very generous of you who already put this at their disposal. And I do agree. There's never hurt in talking to someone that will help you put a plan together, whether you work with them after or not, it's going to be valuable. The consultation is going to be valuable for you itself.
So I can always I can vouch that there's a lot of value there. I'll also, before I answer the question, I'd say from the CINC side, from the CINC side, especially to my CINC clients here, in a moment of a lot of fear right now, but I do think that it would be a different webinar. But I do think that this is one of the most propense times, the most valuable times to be doubling down on the generation.
And I'll say in a second when I answer the question. On buy side lead generation, and we're going to talk about it in a second. So, I want to say, I'm sure my, I'm not as organized as Verily is here, but I'll share my marketing team. We'll put some link, any CINC link, any CINC client that in the next, I'll match whatever you opt for the next two months.
Don't, tell me that you're going to put 100, 000 on it now but, I'm, my goal is to match what you put, let's say up to a thousand dollars. If you put, we're going to match it with you just so that you get this is a moment where you would be thinking, Hey, I need to double down on, on lead gen.
So please someone with my team, Richard, put some link of where people, and if you're not a client, of course we welcome you. I'm, I know I'm the anti sales guy, but if you're not a client, don't worry. There's going to be a different link call. We'll organize something too so that, you are, you get a head start but again, this is a moment with whether it's with CINC or someone else, it's with CINC or someone heavily and aggressively in lead generation.
And I'm going to answer the question from Courtney. So Courtney asked me, she was loving our new real verified leads, which I am too. We're getting leads that are two factor authenticated their phone numbers, which is amazing. But again, that's a different webinar. Which is in the CINC channel if you want to go is in the CINC channel if I love you brought that up. Can I share one more slide? Yeah, of course. Yeah, so we're launching May 1st, the 120 day listing challenge. And people are looking to generate more listing leads and how to do more leads. And I'll go you and I will talk about this. We'll probably do something with the whole channel.
This is you can sign up for it. It's 120 day challenge. We're creating gamification. We're tracking calls conversations appointments. We're going to be giving you a listing tips and all kinds of programs like a group. It's like it's almost like group coaching for listing and it's a very inexpensive program.
We're really just we're really doing this for our clients because our clients all we know that if you want to guarantee to get paid to in today's world. Own the inventory. And if you own the inventory, you're always going to get paid regardless of what happens with class action and threats in the marketplace and everything else.
So if you learn how to own it, so I'm going to challenge you to double your listings the next 120 days. Join the 120 day listing challenge. This is so much fun. We've run this a couple of times before we ran at the beginning of COVID. A similar challenge and when everybody else was trying to figure out if they were going to sell real estate our teams dominated six months before everybody else.
So I encourage you to join and be part of the program. I love it And again everything like the pillars of revenue are real you need to diversify right and you need to be pushing on all fronts But on the on so courtney was asking specifically in the, in the case of the real verified leads, how do I get more listings instead of buyers?
I'm getting mostly buyers and I'm going to be a little contrarian because a lot of other technology companies right now with the fear that NAR has on put on, the buyer lead side. A lot of you are like no, Yes. We need to move you to listings. And go. And so again, if one, I really don't think I'm not going to go deep on this here.
I really don't think that this will change materially the buyer commission model. And if you don't agree with me, I at least would hope if you can go to the SIG channel, I'll my, my, my team will put the link on the, chat and watch my webinar on the NAR settlement. I won't go deep. I believe the buyer model is not changing, but then more importantly Courtney, I don't know if you can, if you're off if you can unmute, I would like to think you asked why can I get more listings?
Let me ask you, and it will sound stupid. Why do you want more listings instead of buyer, consultations? So I have been in the industry for three years 12 years of real estate in different forms, but three years as an individual agent. With the lead generation, we are on a miniature team under a lender who has brought us to it and it's working really well.
The majority of them are absolute buyers, which there's no issue. And I don't have any concerns about the upcoming lawsuit and from a buyer's perspective, but I've not been able to break into the listing side here in Nashville. There's 7 agents for 1 person. So I'm trying to find a way to pivot and start becoming more of a listing agent.
And I love it and I'm not gonna push back. And I think like signing up what, for what Verl just showed could give you great in inroads into that. But specifically on the side of online lead generation. Most people will agree with you, Courtney, but I disagree in the sense of, oh, everyone is oh, how do I get to the listings?
Here's the thing. In the end. If, we leave our egos gets used as a negative word, but if we leave, how do we see ourselves? Am I a listing agent and all of that, and how realtors look at each other in reality, you make the same commission for the same value of house on a buyer than in a seller or almost the same, right?
So the seller, because we have big programs of that, that specifically target seller leads, and it would be easy for me to tell you, Oh, let me sign you up on a seller program. I don't think it's the right call because those seller leads are five times more expensive and they still convert at the same percentage.
So when you calculate your cost per sale on those seller lead campaigns, instead of 5%, you're going to be paying 25%. Now I could also tell you that buyer leads in the end, one in five of them, is gonna two, three, two to three and five of them have a home to sell, which our HomePulse product will rise up.
And one in five will actually sell with you. So in the end, it's almost like you get the seller for free with the buyers. But I'm not even going there. I'm saying, even if you didn't get sellers from the buyers, people gravitate to what feels good or a listing lead feels better, feels more real because there's a lot of agents per per person.
So with the listing, I have them, I put my arms around them while in a buyer lead, I could lose them until a month before the deal. Now, again, we encourage buyer agreements and that's a different webinar but, in the end, this is why I'm a bad sales What feels good is not necessarily what's good for you.
And in, if I go to the math, the buyer lead generation in the end, 70 percent of people end up choosing a listing agent because of fear and only 30 percent because of online while on the buyer side, that's reversed. 70 percent end up choosing a buyer agent through online and 30 percent because of fear.
So the total money being given back to agents. Just on the online side. So this doesn't count for again, sign up for Burrell's program on, but on the online side, you have double the money going to agents from buyers than from sellers. And you have double the money going from agents to the seller side because they're obsessed with it.
So you have double money spent for half the money in return on the seller than you have on buyer. And so again, if I was just trying to make clients happy, I'd tell them yeah, here's a seller program. Okay. My usual response is you'll make more money on buyers than on sellers. You'll get the sellers anyway, because of what I described.
But if you get to your 1%, you could live only on buyers and, do great with online lead generation. Do you want the counterpart to that? Go for it. Alvaro and I have a little bit of fun because we think differently about some things. So here's why the perception that seller leads are so good.
When you work with a buyer, you have 20 hours of showing houses and then they buy a house. When you work with a seller, you have two or three hours. And so return on time with the seller is lower. And so that's, there's a lot of people that are trying to have control of their time in life. And they believe the belief is if they focus on the listing side of the business, they won't spend their life away, driving people around.
So the way that most people do buyers, that's true. And so you have to be strategic how you do it. And the other thing is if you look, if you want to get into the listings I I don't believe anybody should tell anybody else what they should be. Like, you can be whatever you want to be.
You want to be a listing agent, be a listing agent. But if you're going to be one, then how do you take what you currently have and create more opportunities for listings? And so what Alvaro said is Alvaro said, he says that two to three of the buyers that convert we'll actually list their house, which means the listing leads are already in your database, but we're not having and asking the questions to create those leads.
So by intentionally changing the way you communicate with your buyer leads, it's going to open up new listing opportunities. So I'm first going to say, How do we find gaps where there's currently leads coming in? And then how do we change the messaging so that we start creating those listing opportunities?
That would be step one. And then number two is the majority of people list with somebody they have a relationship with. I would take my CINC platform and then I would increase the communication style and the way that I'm talking about my sphere through my CINC platform through my CINC platform uniquely qualified to be able to give more value to them.
In a listing, scenario. And so it's not either or it's and so how do we take what we have and what are the things that we want to add to our business to be able to do frickin dominate with listings? Like I love my buyer's agents. I don't want to be one. And so I love them, right? Yeah. I love my buyer's agents, but I'm going to hire buyer's agents.
And that's my point again. And I agree with rural. So, again, I didn't want to sound like I'm dissing centers. I understand it. But if you're going to grow a business and you're thinking, multiplying your money into money coming back, I'm thinking very mathematically, right? That don't think that growing through buyer agents and buyer leads is now again, it's tough, but you can do it.
And once you're doing it, it has great repeatability. One thing also on what we're all said. On top of that, do make sure that you have HomePulse on. So if you're at CINC, this is specific for you're at CINC, this is specific for CINC clients, tool at CINC best tool at CINC to turn buyers make sure, and combine that with what Veril is saying, which is having those conversations to once you've detected that they're a homeowner, every homeowner is a possible seller.
Two out of three are homeowners, right? I'll answer one last question from John. John, the team leader gets 60%, the team member gets 40, and then it's 40, 45, and 50. And it's based on the transaction. So as you come into coaching, we have contracts for all of this. We have how to hire to it, how to teach it. The question I'll teach you right now, I'll give you some quick dialogue.
If you learn this, it works. Here I'll, I'm going to pretend like I'm interviewing Alvaro. Alvaro, what's more important to you, the split you're on or the amount of money you take home to your family? The amount of money I take home to my house. That's right. So I'm going to put you in an environment where you're selling 24 houses a year.
You don't get to stay on my team. 24 houses a year to 40 percent split is way more money than 80 percent of seven deals. And so you're going to make a lot more money because I'm going to put you in an environment of highly productive people that have a great time. Culture. We practice scripts and dialogues every day.
We do a daily huddle. We prospect, we follow up with a systematic approach following the ABs and Cs of lead generation. Like when you go into a team that's well coached, it's a fun environment where everybody has each other's backs and we're all lifting each other up to be better at the business. And when I think about what CINC is about what CINC is in my business, CINC is the hub, interactions of all of my agents and all the consumers and CINC consumers and CINC plays that combination of all these things. I hope you guys enjoy the webinar today. I love that. There's still the same about the same number of people that we're on and we've gone over. Thank you all for spending extra time with us. Alvaro love your analytical mind and the way you think about leads and conversion.
I appreciate you sharing that with everybody on behalf of all of us at Workman and from CINC. Thank you for and from CINC. Thank you to you.