Building Your Lead Gen Pipeline During Real Estate Market Shifts

Transcript

Richard Kaiser: All right, welcome. I am Richard Kaiser, Director of Demand Gen and Sales Ops over here at CINC, and we want to welcome you to our client marketing team's, Building Your Lead Gen Pipeline During Market Shifts.

Dan Lott is our vice president of client marketing. He joined CINC in 2012. Dan recently is now 10 plus years here.

He launched the online advertising department, that he's continued to lead here. And he has more than 20 years of experience in search marketing and online advertising mainly developing lead gen programs for fast-growing businesses. Dan also wants you to know he earned a BA in economics from American University. And some of you guys don't know that you can do this at an MBA program. He has an MBA in e-commerce marketing from Vanderbilt. Welcome [00:01:00] Dan.

We've also got Harry here. Harry is our senior director of paid social. He's led the paid social media marketing team since 2015 with more than half of that time being focused on real estate. Harry also wanted you to know, he graduated from the two time NCAA Champion University of Georgia in 2008. And with that, I'm going to pass it on to the man you guys are waiting for, Mr. Dan Lott.

Dan Lott: Thank you very much, Richard. Yeah, so that's what we do. As Mark Zuckerberg says we buy ads or we sell ads or we do ads, something having to do with that. So we Harry and I oversee the the lead generation department at CINC and one of the stats we always use is we've generated 33 million leads over the years. So we've, we know what we're doing in terms of buying buying leads.

I always start off every presentation with this. CINC's lead Generation Focus is to [00:02:00] generate the most high quality leads in your preferred areas for the least amount of money. And the point I always focus on is the preferred areas. It doesn't matter if we're generating thousands of leads if they're not in the place you want those leads to be. If you know you're north of Oklahoma City and you want your leads to be in South of Oklahoma City, we can make the changes. You have a dedicated advertising manager at CINC. Reach out to them. If you're not happy with anything with your program, reach out to your advertising manager. The easiest thing we could do is fix the the geo. And that's, something we wouldn't know. We don't know where you want your leads. You tell us at the beginning, but maybe your focus has shifted to a different city. Maybe you've added another agent to your team and they want leads over in West of Oklahoma City.

So anyway, reach out to your advertising manager. We are here to help. Looking at that team, there's [00:03:00] over a hundred years experience. It's a great team and they're all experts in their field.

Harry Kierbow: I did want to say too if you have questions about your campaign, that's one of the benefits of being with CINC is that dedicated marketing manager. So not only can we answer your questions if you have them as the campaign matures or change your areas, we can also offer feedback on strategy. We have tools like the secret submarket finder which actually analyzes a market and highlights smaller sub markets in that market that have a good cost per lead, good lead flow, but a lot of people aren't including in campaigns. So it's it's a good area to target. So, that kind of stuff too, we can assist with, and I would encourage people to utilize the full benefit of CINC.

Dan Lott: All right. So I am going to focus on the search engine advertising part. So I had an epiphany [00:04:00] a couple of months ago. Alvaro, our CEO, was giving a presentation about the home sales market in the United States year over year. Showing the quantity of homes that were being sold, and it looked very similar to two other charts that I look at a lot.

Anyway, so one of the metrics we look at, and we use it as a proxy for how our performance is going to be, is if you go to Google trends and you do "homes for sale," and that indicates how many people are searching for that phrase in Google.

If you look at the homes for sale index, January 13th is actually the year 2013. I messed up the chart, so 2013, 2014, 2015. Over time it kept going up up, and then in 2022, it fell off. [00:05:00] And I was like that's weird. I guess maybe people just aren't searching for homes. Like maybe, people aren't using the internet anymore. Maybe everybody's looking at Facebook or something like that. So it was just very strange because it was really consistently increasing until it dropped off in January 22 when it decreased.

Richard Kaiser: Dan, if you go back to the slide before that. As we were going through this, Dan brought this up to me. I think this is a good point here. The homes for sale index. It's interesting. Harry was saying it went up in 2020 and 2021. January 2022, that index is still more than 2019 or any other year prior to that, right? 2020 and 2021 were kind of anomalies.

Dan Lott: Exactly. If you take those out, the trend is still up. We're still higher than we were in 2019. So remember what that looks like.

This is the home sales. You will tell that they're almost [00:06:00] exactly the same. There's a little bit of fluctuation where 2018 was a little bit less than 2017, but it was up until 2021, which was great. 2022 it went down, which isn't good. It mirrors exactly the amount of people who are searching for homes for sale. It's obvious that if people don't want to buy a house, they're not searching "homes for sale." And this kind of bears it out.

And then the next slide shows this is the number of leads you can get for $20. We usually focus on the cost per lead rather than the amount of leads you can get for $20. But then that would be the opposite of what it is.

So the number of leads you can get for $20, which shows how the the cost effectiveness of leads was going up up up. 2020 was unusual.

There's two factors which determine the cost per lead. It's the cost per click, as well as the conversion rate. Conversion rate is the percent of people who click on the ad who become a lead, who fill out the [00:07:00] form.

So in 2020, that spiked dramatically. People were stuck in their houses. They were like, I clicked on this ad. I'm looking at the website. I got all the time in the world so I'm going to fill it out. And so that's why the, cost per lead was way down in 2020. When the cost per lead is low, that means the amount of lead you can get for $20 is higher, or for any certain amount.

The amount of people who are searching homes for sale, the amount of homes for sale, and the amount of leads you can get for 20, which is like the inverse of cost per lead, they all match exactly. Except for in 2020, when they had the conversion rate increase because of the fact that everybody was trapped at their house.

Harry Kierbow: I think also another big reason for the spike in 2020 was the way that people worked totally changed. If you worked in downtown Atlanta and had [00:08:00] to be in the office 5 days a week, maybe you wanted to live in town. But now, all of a sudden, there at the beginning I'm not in the office at all anymore. And then most people have gone back to some kind of hybrid model.

All of a sudden you didn't have to be so close to where your office was. And I think that was a big part of it too.

Dan Lott: Yeah there was a big shakeup in 2020 with the working from home and everything like that.

So anyway, put it all together and these three factors pretty much are the same thing. So it's amount of people who are searching for homes for sale, the number of homes for sale, and the leads you can get for 20 dollars. Over time it has matched each other.

And so what we're finding now is that... I think the next slide is that where we show what's happening this year? Yeah so this year is not doing so hot. And that's the forecast, [00:09:00] I guess it was from a couple months ago. It's how many homes are going to be sold this year, and it's down again.

So does that mean I should switch my advertising strategy?

Even though there's been a two year trend of lower home sales and higher cost per lead, the cost per lead is still just $7.05. It's still very low compared to all the other advertising options.

This is for Google search leads. So even though we have a two year bad period, and it's it is based on the market conditions of homes for sales going down, you're still against just $7.05 and if you go back to 2020, which was another year of just incredible stress.

In March and April we did another webinar and we were like, oh gosh, what's going to happen? And I was looking at that Google trends every [00:10:00] day. Literally met multiple times a day. I was clicking on that Google trends to see if people are still searching for houses in March of 2020 and at some point It was like, nobody, someday nobody searched for homes for sale and then the next day, it increased.

So at some point the market is going to improve and you're going to want to be advertising. The people who had regrets about 2020 advertising or the people who decided to cut their advertising in half because they thought they couldn't sell houses. That was the most, that year was the most effective for online advertising. Cost per lead was really, low. And the effectiveness of them was really high. A lot of people were buying houses. So people look back at that as that was a really great year to be doing online advertising to be doing search advertising.

You shouldn't decide now I'm going to pause now, nobody's buying houses. At some point, it's going to change. That snap is going to happen and the market's gonna be hot again. And you're going to be [00:11:00] regretting not having any new leads.

Richard Kaiser: One final thing of you can't predict anything. So we've seen it this month, where rates went north of 7%, and the 10 year treasuries going up. That throws it out. We saw it. I think it was Wednesday last week. It was one of the biggest, in the past two months, one day declines in rates that have been seen.

And just so far today, we've seen one of the biggest declines we've seen in two weeks. And it's one of those things. You have no idea when the rates are going to go down, right? None of us do. And I guess to Dan's point, the people who were sitting there continuing investing, they were the people who reaped all the benefits in the second half of 2020 when things popped back.

Dan Lott: It's gonna happen. Nobody knows. It's just there's a lot of uncertainty, but the certainty is that it is gonna turn around at some point.

Also focusing on, even though home sale prices have gone down a little bit and the volume of sales has gone down , a little bit. We have created the lead value index, [00:12:00] which takes in consideration the median home price, average closing percent that you get your commission rate, or the average percent of leads that close as well as the commission rate and the cost per lead to determine the value of internet leads. And It's going up. The last year it went down a little bit because the cost per lead had increased a little bit and the price of homes had gone down. This year in the last quarter, the median home price is at $402,600. 1% average close rate, which is I think NAR has used that. And then the average commission 2.5%. $7.05 Google cost per lead, which gives a lead value index of 14.28, which means that $1.00 of real estate advertising google search advertising, will bring in $14 in revenue. So it's not a 14% return, it's a [00:13:00] 14x return, and that's a really large number. But you have to work for it. You still have to work the leads and do all your business, but it is significant. It's a large number. When I started 11 years ago, that number was something like seven. It was a much lower.

It's just the fact that the cost per lead has not really gone up over the last 10 years, and the price of houses has gone up substantially. So it's a much better deal to be online buying leads now as opposed to 10 years ago.

And even just compared to the first quarter, home prices were up, so cost per lead was pretty good. We had a good second quarter cost per lead. And so the lead value index increased. It just shows that now is still a good time for internet lead gen.

And hot off the presses, Richard just posted this to cincpro.com so you can see all the markets. [00:14:00] It's pretty interesting. You don't know which cities do the best. And it's usually the ones that have the higher home prices, but some cities randomly have really low cost per leads, even though they have pretty pretty decent home prices. So those have a good lead value index.

Alright, so also if you go to cincpro.com, there's a lot of other data that you can look at. Lead value index I said, we have buyer lead reports, seller lead reports, depending on which one you're interested in. The cities that have the lowest buyer leads are not necessarily the ones that have the lowest seller lead cost. And they're usually not. There's usually a big disparity between those. So it's just interesting. It's like what you want to focus on, and you can see where it is in your market.

And then Harry would like to talk about the diversifying of ad spend because the market for search advertising, the cost per lead is up. It's like up a dollar. It's up a couple of dollars. It's up probably 20%, [00:15:00] something like that. Mirroring, as I said, the amount of home search traffic, but social traffic or social real estate lead generation has not had that same fluctuation based on market conditions.

Harry Kierbow: Yeah. Thanks, Dan. And I know we always talk about ad spend diversification, but I think like now in time is a really important time to talk about it, right? Because we are seeing the drop off in what search has been. I know it has exploded in the two years prior to this, to levels that were unsustainable long term.

So it doesn't give me concern about the long term health of the network. And I don't think anybody should be concerned with is this going away? Cause at the end of the day, this is how networks like Google, Bing, Facebook, Instagram, is just how they make money.

So they'll figure out a way to continue to [00:16:00] do that. But, just like any kind of stock portfolio, having all your eggs in one basket is not always the wisest choice. And we've been doing a lot of internal research because we've heard from our clients that a lot of times they don't feel that leads from social convert at the same percent, the same clip, as leads from search.

But we've actually been looking at millions of leads across the entire CINC portfolio since I believe 2017. And what we've seen is that leads from social actually convert at the same percentage as leads from search after 2 years in the CRM. The leads from search tend to convert more quickly. But after we look at it in cohorts, and after that cohort has been in the CRM for 2 years, [00:17:00] we see similar conversion rates. And I think a lot of people feel that you should only go for the lowest hanging fruit, but the way that we see relationships with our clients here at CINC, we want to be with you for the long term. So this is why we recommend breaking up budget the way that we do, to attract those ready now buyers and to also build your pipeline so 6 months down the road, a year down the road, you're really rolling. And that's what we're talking about with our guaranteed sales program as well that we've got a quick slide about later.

But, yeah, as Dan said, we have seen some fluctuations in the cost for social buyer, and that is Facebook and Instagram buyer. We get asked that question. If we run ads on Instagram. The answer is yes we do, by default. There has been some fluctuation here, but throughout the year, the CPL (cost per lead) has remained within about a dollar [00:18:00] range, so not a tremendous amount of variation there but we have seen an increase in traditional facebook and Instagram buyer ads. So these would be, search all the homes for sale in a certain city, or FHA homes for sale in Atlanta. That lead cost is increasing.

What has really kept the social buyer lead costs down is our newest product. It's called team listing ads. And so team listing ads actually promote your team's listings in an ad that is automatically created from the list of properties that we give to Meta, to Facebook and Instagram. And then the algorithms on Facebook and Instagram examine what that person's been doing recently and infers that they're looking for a home in this city. And so it actually refers [00:19:00] your properties to those people based on those inferred interests. And so every single person is getting a different ad that's custom tailored to them. Always showing the listings of our clients. And what we're seeing is it is just hyper relevant. It's very effective. It's built on Facebook's newest ad targeting system algorithm called Advantage Plus. So it's been very effective promoting specifically your team's listings. So we're putting eyeballs on the listings that you're trying to sell the most.

And Facebook and Instagram, similar to like a buyer match program, is looking at what that person is interacting with recently and showing these homes to them based on that. So again, it's been extremely effective. Listings are updated automatically. So that's very hands off. That's tied to the MLS. Properties [00:20:00] are shown, again, based on the leads recent activity, and it's got a really big footprint. It's being shown across Facebook, Instagram, their partners, stories, reels, anywhere that we can capture someone's attention we're trying to do that. And the listings of homes or the images of the homes really seem to resonate with this ad type.

What we've seen is this increased relevancy is really driving great results. 35% lower cost per a thousand impressions. That's a metric of what it costs to show your ad a thousand times. If you think about it, Facebook and Instagram want people to remain on the network, so you get rewarded for relevancy on these networks. And so these ads are very relevant. People are really interacting with them. And so we're being rewarded by Meta, and they're charging us less to show the ads, which is just more at bats for you to [00:21:00] convert a lead, more impressions for your listings to people in your markets.

Also a 61% lower cost per click. So that stems somewhat from the lower cost to show the ads, but it also speaks to the relevancy, and that's resulted in a 22% lower cost per lead. And going back to the slide showing our chart here, the way that the overall Facebook and Instagram buyer costs is remaining relatively flat is we launched team listing ads towards the end of last year, and it's gaining more and more of the budget share from clients. And as we're spending more on team listing ads, that's keeping the overall cost down. So 22% lower cost per lead. And again, looking at the reporting that we're looking at in terms of lead conversion, it's a numbers game.[00:22:00] The more leads we can get you for your budget, the better chances for success you're going to have. We also let leads request showings directly from the ad itself. This is the form that someone will see when they sign up, a lead will see when they sign up.

So you can see A) we asked them qualifying questions to have them put a little bit of skin in the game, right? They can't just click submit and submit their information. And we, ask them questions do you own a home? How soon would you buy if you found the perfect home? Or if I found the perfect home I would buy? And then whether or not they would like to tour the home that they've signed up on. And these questions are imported into the CRM when they sign up, and that informs you in terms of lead follow up, hey, this person is interested in seeing 123 Main Street. Let's call them right away. You should call everybody right away, but maybe put a little more emphasis on those leads.[00:23:00]

And then going back to the lead value index, if you put the team listing ad CPL into that, you get a LVI of 26.35. And even let's take into account some clients say that they convert again, leads from social at a lower clip than leads from search. If you're closing these leads at 0.75% the lead value index is 19.76. So either way, it's a good investment. Now looking at this slide, does that make me say I should take everything out of search and put it here? No, like the whole idea here is a diversified approach to your advertising. Sure maybe these leads based on this calculation have a higher LVI, but on average, it's going to take longer for you to realize that. Which is why we recommend that our clients put the majority of their budget on search. And then also [00:24:00] supplement that with social, particularly team listing ads if you're eligible. And you need to have 3 listings, at least. 3 active listings. So particularly team listing ads, if you're eligible to build that long term pipeline so you're with us for life, because that's what we want. We're successful when you succeed. And our goal is that we help you build a tangible asset, your database. That's very valuable. So that's what we're working towards.

If you guys haven't heard about it we do have a guaranteed sales program now. And we're so confident in what we're talking about here, this is the ad breakdown that we put behind our guaranteed sales program. So this is the ad breakdown that we recommend to clients. To generate a certain number of sales in a certain amount of time. This is based on years of research, and if [00:25:00] you have any questions about that, we'll have QA here soon. If you're a CINC client, speak with your account manager. If you're not yet, you can speak to your CINC representative, or ask questions here on the webinar.

We would so we would really love you guys to connect with us on social. It's just @cincpro pretty much everywhere except YouTube. That's an OG channel. And we've recently started a new campaign of reels and videos with helpful content about advertising, lead conversion, anything like that. So whether you're a CINC client or not we would love for you to connect with us, and if you find something of value, share it. Leave us some. So that'd be great.

Dan Lott: Yes, I just want to back up what Harry just said. A lot of the videos we have created are based on the Q and A's that we have gotten before [00:26:00] and that our account managers have asked us, so we are answering a lot of the commonly asked questions. So a lot of people don't want to sit through an hour long webinar where we talk about lead generation.

Harry Kierbow: Thank you. Thank you, by the way. Thank you to everyone who's here.

Dan Lott: Yes, exactly. There's a lot of cute videos and informative and check them out. There's gonna be a lot more coming, coming up too.

Richard Kaiser: Before we get into Q&A, someone's asking who this is designed for. We invited out both prospects and clients to this. We've been getting a lot of questions about, things have shifted out in the real estate market. What are you guys seeing in the online real estate lead gen front? And so this is something Dan and Harry have been watching closely, and they wanted to share what they were seeing. So with that, for our prospects who are here I'll drop this in the chat, cincpro.com/request-a-demo. Best way to get in touch with the sales team or get back in touch with your sales rep if you've been talking to them. If [00:27:00] you're already a client, please connect with your lead generation expert. You can learn more about your paid search or paid social campaign by reaching out to your account manager to schedule a call.

In addition learning CINCs industry leading best practices. There's some questions out there around how many leads does it take to get a closing, get a conversion? And the long and short of it is, it depends, right? So we do see some, baseline numbers similar to what we said out there, 1 to 3% conversion rates, but it depends on following best practices. And we've got a lot of the best practices published out there if you go to cinccommunity.com, also one of the single best things you can do when you're connecting with leads, if you're not seeing 30 to 40% of them turning into appointments, you need to come to the conversion day event. So at every power hour, we've done right for the past 3, 4 years of this, regardless of the markets that [00:28:00] we've seen, we've consistently seen a 30-40% connecting to a lead to an appointment rate.

And that, comes from following best practices from our trainers in following up with online leads. So cinccommunity.com. Keep an eye out for the emails around CINC conversion day. And then if you need help or have any other questions, contact CINC support email addresses. Phone number's there.

Dan Lott: I just want to emphasize what Richard just said. It's like we have, we have a company full of experts in real estate lead generation and conversion. And if you're a CINC client, you can avail yourself of that expertise, whether it's the advertising department where everybody has their own dedicated advertising manager, to CINC community, which is training on the best practices, how to get these leads into conversions, as well as your account manager. Across the board, if you need some assistance, they're there for you, and we're there [00:29:00] for you, and just take us up on it. And especially that CINC community, those power hours, we just started doing these virtual power hours, and they're great, and we just had one a week ago, and everybody should go, like there's no reason not to. You hear stories about people who come, and they're there for an hour, and they get four appointments. Was that worth an hour? Yeah, I think so.

Richard Kaiser: All right. Dan, Harry, you guys ready for some Q& A? And then like they said, if you got questions send them in, right? Dan and Harry are going to answer them online.

So the first question we have from Jonathan. So Google's new SGE. And their ad placement, right? Some of that there's rumblings out there. Things are starting to change. Google's starting to mess around a little bit more with AI. What are our thoughts about that? What, if any, like what type of impact have we started to see from some of the things that Google's been testing?

Dan Lott: We haven't seen anything. It's going to happen at some point. And not in Google, [00:30:00] but on Bing. Like the last time we did a presentation, that's when Bing was getting a lot of publicity because they were going to be the first to have AI in their search results or however it was going to be. And they were poised to grab market share from Google. And they just released last week, I don't know if it's quarterly trends or whatever the search market share of BING in Google and nothing changed. I would have thought it would have had an impact of some sort, but it had nothing. And yeah, I think Harry said earlier, and what Mark Zuckerberg said earlier, they make money off of ads, and they're going to figure out a way to incorporate ads into any sort of AI results. Any result, whether it's somebody searching homes for sale or homes in Kansas city or whatever it is, or if it's somebody doing an AI query or something like that, they're going to figure out a way to plop an ad on there and incorporate text links in the AI [00:31:00] results or whatever sort of invasive advertising Google wants to stick in there.

It's going to have an impact. I'm not sure what it's going to be, but since Google is an advertising company, there will always be advertising opportunities on Google.

Richard Kaiser: So 1 of the questions we got. Harry, could you go back to the slide? I think it was talking about Google and Facebook having similar conversion rates.

Harry Kierbow: Yeah so the research that we saw, the research that we've been doing. Because we did a lot of research to go into the guaranteed sale program to offer something like that. So a big step in the research was being able to identify closings by source and to pull that information from multiple CRM platforms across multiple years and looking at it in different cohorts. [00:32:00] If you register in 2017, how long does it take to convert for that group? I see your question, Brad, about is it 20% in the first year? And I'm not sure the exact breakdown over time. The main thing that we saw was that leads from Facebook and Instagram buyer and team listing ads converts at the same basic rate as the leads from search. And that led to our recommendations that when you launch a campaign we have the majority of spend on search because we expect that they'll convert more quickly on average. But then you have a portion, usually 60% to 40%, something like that, on team listing ads or Facebook buyer because they're generally cheaper. The contact validity is generally better.[00:33:00] They're just going to take longer to convert on average, and we do see some leads on social. The same people that are on search are also on social. So we do see some leads on social that convert very quickly. But I think on average, the expectation should be at least several months and longer on average than a lead from search engines. Does that make sense?

Richard Kaiser: Yes. All right next, question. I think Scott and somebody else had asked this in there. There's some discussion in the chat around verifying phone numbers and emails, right? Sometimes you get things there. I know there are some limitations, right? To control there and even how much we'd want to control. Dan, Harry, could you guys speak to how we think about spam phone numbers, emails, versus verifying phone numbers and emails on leads.

Dan Lott: Yeah, I know this is something that we are working on. Not within our department, a different [00:34:00] department, but it is being worked on and I think there's going to be some new best practices released pretty shortly, but there's always the trade off, and I think we're going to get around the trade off of if you make it harder to register, then you're just, if you make it harder to register, you're going to keep out good leads and bad leads. And keep out some good leads, and you don't want to keep out the good leads. So that's why just one of the basic fundamentals of double opt-in, or whatever it is. But the product team is working on some really interesting stuff. I think they're going to be talking about the next few months of verification of leads and things like that. That's all I can say about that because it hasn't come out yet. It's still in the planning stages. They're still working on it.

Harry Kierbow: I think too, this is always an interesting question to me cause we have seen leads, if you look in the Facebook group, there are stories of a lead that registered seven years ago [00:35:00] as John, I don't know. Whatever. A fake name. And then they send them emails for years. They never answered their phone calls. And then 6 or 7 years later, they reply to a property alert and say, "hey, I'm ready to buy a house now." I understand. And I think those leads are very few and far between that do that. But to me, at what point is it worth turning down a potential commission with a lead that the system could nurture. I don't know. And I think that's what we're always looking at. Because what we see is, it's a numbers game. Again, if we can get that lead in and get them to be nurtured by the system and interact with your marketing, and click on emails. Eventually that could become a transaction.

Dan Lott: Yes Harry touched on the nurturing of leads that don't look like great [00:36:00] leads, or they only an email address. There's no phone number. Using AI, and auto tracks, and some of the other CINC features can do the lead nurturing without you actually doing the heavy lifting. Just to set up the the program and it works for you.

Harry Kierbow: Tiffany Christian just said, we have three ratified contracts closing in the next week that all started with fake names and phone numbers. So that's really interesting. Thank you for saying that Tiffany and congratulations. Way to go. You guys are kicking ass. So that's awesome. She said she's been with us for three months.

Richard Kaiser: Alright I think this might have been this might have been a Gilbert question. The team listing ads platform - is this something you guys manage, and is there an additional cost of ads associated with that?

Harry Kierbow: No, so it's a buyer spend. So when you give us the budget, we would create the ads. Create the [00:37:00] catalog. If you have an existing Facebook page, we can run the ads from that page. And if you have it, that might make the most sense because then you would be able to see any comments or anything like that on the ads and respond to them. Or if you don't have a page, we can create one that mirrors the CINC site. Then we create the ads, manage them. It's the standard charges for any kind of ad campaign. There's no extra fee because it's a team listing ad. We are, from what we've been seeing with team listing ads, if you have listings, at least three, is really the bare minimum. Five to ten is obviously better. Anything over 10 really seems to do really well. We want as many of our clients on this ad type as we can get because we've seen good results from them.

Dan Lott: Yeah, if you're able to do it, if you have three listings, and you're not currently [00:38:00] using them, you should be doing this because they're the cheapest leads they have. It's 20% higher appointment rate than regular Facebook ads. They're just really good. So reach out to your account manager if you don't have it, and Harry periodically, we'll send out an email about them trying to convince you to get over.

Harry Kierbow: And then just 1 thing too, we would always recommend if you start a new ad campaign, just make sure you give it enough time to see what it's going to be like. At least 90 days. Because the ads all have to go through the algorithms and the algorithms figure out who's going to be the most likely to convert. And so the performance at the beginning is much more unstable than performance at the end, or once it's established. But we do have clients that turn ads like these off and on run it for a month, convert a lead a few months later, turn it back on. And the longer it can be established, the more effective [00:39:00] the campaign will be in general on both Facebook, Instagram, Google, Bing.

Richard Kaiser: One of the things going on the chat, I think Darcy and Thomas had mentioned they were looking for some more details around like building lead gen pipeline. So we were more focused on how our clients see benefit from paid advertising to build their lead gen pipeline in terms of additional things they can do, or additional things that continue to nurture that pipeline or help convert it over there.

I do really think if there are people out here who haven't had a chance to go to the conversion day. We'll have another one coming up. I really encourage you guys to go out there. I think that gets to a lot more into the nitty gritty detail of, you've got the leads in the database, what do you need to do with them? But it's something we'll think about. Maybe we can do some additional webinars or trainings around what are some other things you can do to build the lead gen [00:40:00] even after you get the leads there. So appreciate the feedback. Thanks for sharing that.

Harry Kierbow: I would definitely second the online conversion day. I'm not an agent, and I went to one at one of our summits and I remember just walking in and just thinking that this was not going to be very valuable for me, but it was great. It was with John Marone who's still doing them. Kristine Dunn does them also. It was awesome. A lot of good information, a lot about mindset, which I think was really important and things that I've applied today.

Richard Kaiser: Any closing remarks from Harry or you Dan?

Dan Lott: I guess 2 things. Just the whole concept of diversification. The cost per lead is a little bit higher now on Google search. At some point, it's going to go down again, but that's why it's important to do Facebook team listing ads. And just sometimes the Google does better than Facebook. It's not [00:41:00] rare. It's common that Google does better than Facebook. So that's why you need to diversify.

And then also go to the the social media stuff and so you can submit some questions. We're going to look at the questions that were here and then do some videos on those too.

Harry Kierbow: I guess I would say who you work with is really important. We are a group of people with expertise in real estate marketing. This is all we do, all day, every day. We have a team of 15 people who are managing ads specifically for real estate clients in the U.S. and Canada. We've been recognized by Facebook as the highest level business partner. Same with Google. Same with Bing. I think who you work with, especially right now, is very important. I think we're the best. I'm biased. But I think we can back that up as well. And we would love to help you convert [00:42:00] some leads. So thanks everybody for being on the webinar and showing up. We appreciate that very much. And if you have questions, just let us know.