Addressing 4 Myths and Concerns Regarding Online Real Estate Leads

Transcript

Todd Sumney: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and thank you for joining us today on the Real Estate Podcast. I'm Todd Sumney, the Chief Industry Officer of HomeSmart and we are excited about today's episode here because the tactics and the ideas that we're going to talk about I know firsthand have impacted so many agents that I know of personally who have reached just new levels of success in their business.

So my promise to you at the beginning of this episode is if you apply some of the tactics that you're going to hear today to your business, you are going to increase your business. You're going to be able to serve more customers, grow your transaction count, make your business stronger, and I think even make your business more efficient. Start to save you some time and maybe get the success that comes from working smarter, not harder.

And that's what I'm excited about today's episode. So I [00:01:00] want to start with a story real quick, if I could, before I introduce our colleagues here today. I know of a, woman, a HomeSmart agent in California. She was married. Ended up going through a divorce. Had some children. Had a career early on in her life. But when she went through her divorce, all of a sudden she is looking at, How do I move on to this next phase in my life? And how do I provide for my family? And she turned to online leads and more importantly, to an online lead system that helped her put processes and systems and certain aspects in place to help her not only generate leads, but to walk them through a funnel, so to speak, where they went from leads or prospects to leads to conversion and closings. And consistently on stage every year at our National Growth Summit, She was in our [00:02:00] top five, top 10 agents across the board, and she did this within a two year time period from starting in real estate. She went from zero to the top in two years, and she remained there for many years here at HomeSmart. She created this success through What we're going to talk about today. 

I also know the team leader who was trying to grow his team and in a very competitive market, and he needed some things to help him create more business for the team members on top of it. To create some mechanisms that helped him build accountability into his team. So if we're gonna turn leads over to you, are you doing them well? Is your skill the right skill? Are you saying the right things? Are you being successful? Or are you even, are you doing the work? And it was some automated systems that actually helped [00:03:00] him do this. It helped him create accountability. Create systems and really grow his team and then his team members were all successful and all on stage every year with us at How do you go from the first agent I was telling you about 0 in real estate to $700,000 in commissions within two years? And if that intrigues you, you're going to love to hear today's episode. 

Today's title I want to switch here. For those of you that are watching on YouTube, you'll be able to see up on the screen. Today is our Mythbusters episode. We are going to be mythbusting. We're going to bust four myths and concerns regarding online leads. Online leads, they have a buzz about them. You do a webinar on lead generation, everybody joins in. Everybody wants to know, what are you doing for lead gen? Lead gen is so much more than just the generating of the leads. It's all those things I've been talking about, systems, [00:04:00] etc. And our two guests here today, they know so much about this, and I can't wait for you to hear their concepts in their brains and pick their knowledge and pick their brains about what they know, and they're going to share that with you.

So today, I'd like to welcome Shawn Craig and Richard Kaiser from Commissions Inc., CINC Pro. For those of you that... Have heard of Commissions Inc. or CINC Pro, go to to CINCPro.com/HomeSmart. You're going see all the data. You'll be able to sign up for a demo to see what they're talking about, but it's not just about CINCPro.

It's about the concept of online leads and what we're doing with growing your business. And we're going to break it down into four major areas, and I guess that's where I'm sick of hearing myself talk already. Shawn, Richard, can you guys take it away a little bit? And our first set up, I guess today really is, what do you think about my intro? About what I talked about, [00:05:00] about, online leads.

Richard Kaiser: I think it's great. We really appreciate appreciate giving us the opportunity to share what we're seeing getting the chance to talk about the industry with you. I'm Richard Kaiser, director of demand gen and sales ops here. And I've also got my colleague, Shawn Craig. Shawn Craig, you want to give a little background about yourself? 

Shawn Craig: Sure. So I'm director of sales here at CINC. I'm also a licensed real estate agent of about 17 years. So I've been doing it a while, and Todd, I thought your intro was great. I love hearing about successes, right? Especially those successes that start off with someone who really started off at the bottom getting themselves up to the top, right? And I think that, what's behind all of that is probably a whole lot of work, a lot of faith. A lot of a big leap of faith there into doing online lead generation or at least doing something.

So I think it's very commendable, right? And we're excited to talk to you today just about these myths and about anything else that [00:06:00] we can do that can potentially help your audience to be able to understand online lead generation even better. But more importantly, how to do it correctly. 

Todd Sumney: And that's what excited me in talking with the two of you prior to this podcast here today. Shawn, you're running a team right now. You're in it every day in the thick of it, And so the concepts you're gonna talk about here with us They're proved and they're they're proven And they're tried and true and they're still working today. Is that right? 

Shawn Craig: Absolutely and I'll tell you that I do lead generation for whom I believe to be the hardest person to do it for- my wife is a real estate agent and she has the team you could almost look at myself as being the marketer for that team. And I'll tell you that I've got to do a good job. I don't really do. So when you think about trying to market for someone, your spouse clearly is going to be the hardest person to do it for. What I don't want to do is end up [00:07:00] sleeping on the couch. 

Todd Sumney: So I guess let's dig right in. Let's tackle that first myth that I think that some agents have in their mind. And that's that online leads are terrible and they're a waste of money. What do you have to say about that myth? 

Richard Kaiser: Yeah, so this is a good one, Todd. So that's the myth. I want to try to leave people with something. And so we're down. We're in Georgia. We're near Talladega right here. And in the words of Ricky Bobby, paraphrasing here, if you're not first, you're last. That's what I want people to remember related to this. Okay, if you're not first, you're last.

Now why, do I say that as it relates to online leads? So NAR stats. Okay, so between 2010 2000, the majority of people found homes either through the realtor or they were looking at yard size. Fast forward 2010, 2011 coming out of the housing crisis, it's about [00:08:00] half the time people found a home online, half the time they found a home through a real estate agent, right?

As we've entered the 2020s, what we're now seeing is People are finding homes online twice as much as they are from real estate agent kind of pointing them in that direction. So one, online whether you like it, don't like it, whatever. That's the biggest pool out there online, okay?

The next point on that is, okay, why do you want to get to someone early, right? And so, NAR asked people, okay, how many agents did you interview before you went with the agent you ultimately went? They talked to first time home buyers or repeat buyers. People buying multiple homes. Across the board, 75 percent of the time, people choose the first agent they talk to. So that's why I say 75 percent of the time, if you are not first, you're last. You're missing out. You get no shot. So it's never been more important to be first in line. And then [00:09:00] the other interesting point that takes us back to why the online sphere is so critical.

So when people actually get in that, when they get in that active home buying home selling process on average, it's a little over two months it takes. However, people don't reach out to a realtor till week four for about that first month. They're doing all their research online, not talking to anybody, right? So we focus down instead of looking at it, right? It's a waste of money. We look at it as it is a huge opportunity to cut in front of the line and be the first person in there.

Todd Sumney: I love that. And I want to tie it back to my original story. And I want to be clear. I was stating a myth an untruth. Because the first story, going zero to $700,000 a year in commissions and having that every year thereafter that, it proves that this is a myth. You just have to know what you're doing and do it [00:10:00] right and do the right things. And that's why one of the things that I've picked up from you, Shawn, is about fishing where there are fish.

If you go on a fishing trip and you're out in the boat, you're out there fishing, you're doing the work and whatever, there's just no fish anywhere. You never catch any, but yet if you know where the fish are and that's where you're fishing. Now, all of a sudden you're busy, right? And you're being successful and that's the main reason why I wanted to start with that story about that amazing agent. I love her to death. She's one of my favorite people in the world and her story, when you hear it from her personally, she was basically, I was new to the industry and they helped teach me how to fish where there were fish. So I was successful quickly. 

Shawn Craig: And I think you're absolutely right. The analogy around fish where they're actually fish, there's [00:11:00] a lot of truth to it. And what I want to challenge everyone today is just to start thinking a little bit differently. Meaning let's put ourself in the shoes of the customer real quick, and let's start thinking because every single one of us have been in a situation where we probably bought our house before. And I think that what it comes down to is logically, when you start to think about it, there's only a few different places online that people actually go to look for homes.

It's not complicated. Let's not over complicate it. I think people go three places to look for homes. I think they go to Zillow. I think they go to realtor.com. And I think the lion share of folks all go to Google. And I think most people would agree to that. So knowing that people are going to Google, that's where CINC focuses, right?

And what we do is we try to capture what we call an educated homebuyer. Now, let's talk through that real quick. What is an educated homebuyer? Now, an educated homebuyer, in my opinion, is someone who's familiar with your market, meaning, they've driven through your market. They're looking for things that are very specific. [00:12:00] There's a reason why they're moving to your market. Most of the time, there are specific neighborhoods, there are certain school districts, if they have children, if they're an avid golfer and they want to move to a golf course, they're looking for homes within a golf course community. If they care about sense of security or looking for luxury, typically, they're looking for gated home community.

My point is, that there are 2 different approaches to online marketing. You can go the quantity route. And going that route, you tend to focus more on things like cities and zip codes. What most companies online do, and where I believe they come up a little bit short on the quality side, is that they try to cast this large net, this broad stroke.

And what they're doing is they're trying to put a pin in the map for a particular city, and then what they're doing is they're marketing within a certain proximity of that particular pin, typically 30 miles or even 60 miles. 

What I would challenge you to do is to think a little bit differently. And what we do here at CINC is [00:13:00] we focus in on, let's capture that educated homebuyer. They search differently. How do they search? They've driven around, therefore they've got a list of three, four, five different neighborhoods that they're interested in. Why are they online in the first place looking for homes? They're looking for availability. We all know that we've gone through times where there was a lot of homes on the market, and then we're currently in a time where, frankly, there's not a lot on the market. And homebuyers are all out there searching on their own. It's just what we have to be able to do is again, put the hat on of a customer and start thinking, let's start capturing the right people.

Now I think that there's a couple of different things that we can analyze here when it comes to quality. And I think that this is typically going to get us into the probably the second myth, which is around online leads or what we're going to talk about online leads are a waste of time, but I'll kick it back over to you.

Todd Sumney: No, I love everything you were saying. It also ties into what Richard was talking about, [00:14:00] also, so not only are you Targeting that person that is educated or knows what they're looking for. You're getting to the right person. You're fishing where there's fish. But Richard, you were talking about you're getting to them at the right time. So maybe they're four weeks into the process. They've been driving the neighborhood on their way home from work because they want to know what their drive's going to be like in that neighborhood where they want to move into because that's where their kids want to go to school. So now they're three weeks into their search, and you gotta be there right at the right time. I love what both of you are saying, and that, to me, I just know personally, that maybe, maybe leads, the myth, the myth is a myth, it's not true. There's just so many top agents I know that are doing things the right way, that they're, having... Success. It's just you need to know the right things to do. And I think that's what's going to get [00:15:00] us into our other three topics, right? But Richard, do you have anything more to add here on the first concept? 

Richard Kaiser: No I think Shawn puts us in a great light. I think this dovetails right into the second one, right?

Todd Sumney: Which our second myth here is about that online leads are a waste of time or they take too much time. And that's a myth. I've heard agents say that. They just take too much time for not very much ROI. So again, tell us how that is not true. Who wants to go first? 

Richard Kaiser: I'm gonna leave you with another one here and Shawn will, Shawn will laugh and make fun of me here, but I'm, the marketing guy, so I gotta, at least leave you, with something to remember here. Mark Twain right, has his famous quote that is, the reports of my death are greatly exaggerated. Okay?

So what I say right at CINC. We have we got the controversial [00:16:00] idea, the reports of the death of the real estate agent are greatly exaggerated, right? We don't believe that you can automate a real estate agent, right? You can't just put a website up and get a chatbot out there and start getting closed deals. That's never going to happen, and if we do get to a point we don't think that's necessarily a good thing. I, ultimately, I don't think it's going to be a good thing for home buyers or home sellers.

And so lead quality, super important, right? So that's what we were talking about the first time. You got to find people at the right time, get the right people. And then we're going to talk later on is there is, it's involved in following up with these people and you do need technology for that. Technology is really critical. But what's really important and what separates what we see people, like you talked about, and some people might say, leads didn't work is let's like the individual real estate agent makes a huge difference to you, [00:17:00] right? And so what we see is how do you get technology that, so the person you were talking about it's been doing it for two years, right?

And we've got teams right they've been doing this for a decade You start to get a database of thousands of leads in there.

Todd Sumney: She's up to 10 years now, But her first two years the ramp up what you're talking about in your systems, you're what helped her get there and she stayed there.

Shawn Craig: Let me jump in here real quick, because I think that let's put some stuff into perspective real quick. So what is a waste of time? What is a desirable ROI? And more importantly, like, how much time, energy, and effort do you need to put into leads?

We generated over 5 million leads last year. Okay. We helped over 60, 000 real estate agents close over 75,000 transactions that were reported. We coach a lot of real estate agents at this. And I'll tell you that lady didn't get there overnight. She put in a lot of work, but let's talk through [00:18:00] some numbers real quick.

So we have realized that about 18 percent of leads are, our contact rates, so to speak is about an 18 percent rate. Meaning if you're going to call a hundred leads and put the work in on a hundred leads, you can expect to talk to about 18 of them. Now, out of that 18, you can expect about a 40 percent conversion rate over to an actual appointment.

That's an opportunity, right? So when you really boil it down, we're talking about seven opportunities out of 100. I can't imagine..

Richard Kaiser: That's just 100 calls, right? So you're gonna keep going back to those folks. 

Shawn Craig: Oh, absolutely. But again, it's about being disciplined, right? So you wake up every day. And what are you gonna do? If you've invested in a lead generation engine, like a CINC, and you've got leads coming in, you're gonna be focusing in on the active ones, right? Those leads that are active out there looking online, and you're gonna make some calls. You make a hundred dials and you're going to find yourself with 18 conversations and right at about seven opportunities as a result of that.

Now, I can't [00:19:00] imagine that there's any listener that doesn't go, wow, I'd love to have seven opportunities in my pipeline, right? Now those are theirs for the taking if they want it. But the question isn't, are they going to buy? It's when they're going to buy. And I think what you have to be able to do as a real estate agent is you have to find yourself in an opportunity where one, you're willing to put in the work.

And two, that work is going to pay off, right? Some of those are going to be now opportunities and some of them are going to be future opportunities. A good follow up system like Richard was talking about is really a good system that you can trust, that essentially will help you identify who those now buyers are, and then it will work on those future buyers for you.

And I think we'll touch on that in just a little bit. But I just want to focus in a little bit more on those seven opportunities, right? What do you do? How do you get them on the phone? So think about it this way, right? What we're doing to capture an educated home buyer is actually really simple, but it's brilliant.

What we do is we [00:20:00] build a very specific hyper local lead generation website. Our goal is to attract that educated homebuyer from a Google, right? So think about the searches that are happening on Google. We're intercepting them. We're driving them to the site. They come in, they're looking for specific homes, they're going through a process, becoming a lead, and now you've got them.

Now, what you have to do on your end is you need to do the work. You gotta pick up the phone and make the calls. Those opportunities are gonna be there. Now, what do you say? I would challenge you that these people are actually knocking on your door, so to speak. Think about it. They're on your website. They're looking for homes. You're a real estate agent and you can help them. So what you need to do is call them up. Hey, you were out on my website looking for homes. I'm a real estate agent in the area and I'd love nothing more than to help you. So what you'll find is that the conversations are easier than what you may think.

You've just got to get beyond the fact that, hey, this is a stranger. [00:21:00] At the end of the day, they're knocking on your door. Are you going to answer the phone or answer the door and let him in? You've got to be able to make that, happen. And then from there, right? I think you can rely upon a system that can essentially take those future buyers and make something of them down the road. You really can. 

Todd Sumney: Well and that's why again, to reiterate for everyone. The 1st tactic we're talking about today is fishing, where the fish are, where they're searching, right? We already covered that in the first section, but then once you have 'em, it's like what are you saying to them to engage them?

And I think that in previous conversations with you, I think you also, you've told me you think this is an ideal time to get a buyer to actually sign a buyer broker agreement. 

Shawn Craig: Make a commitment to get it, Todd. 

Todd Sumney: And make a commitment to you. So how do you, meaty tactics that our agents can take away and apply here. How do you [00:22:00] do that? It's back to school time right now. Absolutely. I know people are searching for I want to get into this school district or my kids want to go to this school. You create this hyper local search where it's the top three neighborhoods for this high school. Okay. Now you got seven of them on the phone, right? How do you get them to a buyer broker agreement? 

Shawn Craig: And I, now you got me excited, right? Because this is where I think people should focus. I think people spend too much time focusing on, how many closings have I had and I think the closings will come. But I think what you've got to be able to do is you've got to seize the opportunity. You've got someone that's acting. You've got someone who's active looking for a home. Like you said, in a specific neighborhood, you've now got them on the phone. You've got to be to create a moment in time. Okay, that moment could be over coffee. That moment could be you doing some work for them, meaning you could go out and you could do a face time [00:23:00] or Facebook live for them of a home a tour, you could get a commitment from them on a number of things right to be able to have a detailed conversation. But I think what matters here is that you've got to be able to identify out of these people in these conversations that you've had, how many of them are committed to working with you. How many are committed to working for you? 

So what you've got to be able to do is let them know that, hey, I'd love to help you. I really would love to help you find your home. But what I'd like to also do is I'd like for you to make a commitment that you're willing to work with me as well. Just ask the question.

These people are looking to be guided in the home buying process. Most of the time it's not even their first time buying a home. So what you have to do is be bold, be excited, and bottom line is be personable. But I think there's a way for you regardless of the time frame. They're looking to make a purchase.

Example. Someone you [00:24:00] speak with someone today and they say, hey it's going to be about 6 months before we make a move. If those people happen to be in your market, encourage them, to go out to coffee. Let them know you want to get to know them. Let them know you want to understand and build a relationship with them.

And then when you do that, bring that buyer brokerage agreement. So bring it. It's not hard. I think that what happens here is, that you find yourself in a situation where you have reservations that they're going to say no. My thoughts on that is, is are you going to not, get the deal? You don't have the deal now.

You've got to be to get someone to be to say, hey, you know what? I like you too, and I want to work with you. You can't find yourself in a situation where you let something stretch on and on. And then the next thing you know, they make a purchase off of one of their friends. 

Todd Sumney: And what I'm hearing you talking about is about connecting, engaging, creating that [00:25:00] relationship, providing information, providing value over a six month time period. While you know they've already said, hey, we want to buy, in the next six months they've given you, you listen to what they're saying. And then serve them, give them information, connect with them, but it's about saying the right things. It's about converting them and moving them along in the, path.

Shawn Craig: A hundred percent, but I often wonder why people are reluctant to ask for someone's business. But I think that if you were to ask that lady how she got to be so successful, I think what she would say is that she stepped out of her comfort zone. And she started asking people whether or not they liked her, too, and wanted to work with her.

And if they did, she was going to put a whole bunch of time, energy, and effort into helping them find their dream home. And that really all she wanted to do was get a commitment from them that they wanted to work with her, too. And I think that what we should do is we should seize [00:26:00] those opportunities early on in the process so that we don't find ourselves wasting time along the way thinking we've got someone who's going to buy when in all reality they very well may not. So I think that you just look at things a little bit differently and approach it differently and have the hard conversations that need to be. 

Todd Sumney: She did the very things you're talking about. And I know I've spent actually a lot of time with her. And, she let me into some different insights about her business.

Back to our first concept the thing about the fishing where people are fishing. Her thing was, I want to get rid of just the mass marketing. And just the, high, quality leads versus low quality leads. She focused in on, it's a high quality lead when they're wanting to live in this area of Valencia, California, okay?

Or this area of Sacramento. Where she lived, there was a certain area, and when she honed in on those [00:27:00] people, her probabilities went up because It, it made it a high probability they wanted to be in that area. So it was high quality leads versus low quality. Number one. 

Number two, she said that the things you're talking about, it was she was able to quantify through your systems, her call to, to buyer broker agreement ratio. And it helped her work through on a daily basis connecting with these people. And I think sometimes an agent, they're talking to someone and they're like I told you yeah, we wanted to move in the next six months, but right now we're putting it on the back burner and then that'll deflate their whole day.

But what she was telling me was, she could, because of the metrics and the way your system helped her manage how many calls does she get, how many appointments is she getting, and then how many actually turn into buyer broker agreements, and then how many actually turn into [00:28:00] transactions, it helped her manage her business and keep herself motivated, and she knew that if she put in the work, and that if she honed her skills, said the right things, that it would lead to the success. Is any of that resonating with you, but that's what she told me about what you guys did for her. 

Richard Kaiser: Todd, what you talked about there and there, that when we get to four, I want to come back and revisit that. Because I, I think that is exactly, that's what really, that's what completely separates it, right? When people get that, I think the game completely changes.

Todd Sumney: Awesome. Alright, so I think we've determined that leads are not a waste of time. It's, how you approach it. And I think that gets us into our third myth, and I'll just tell you our fourth myth so we can just talk freely. But the third myth is that online leads are too complicated and managing them are complicated. I [00:29:00] know that's not true. Also online leads are too risky and most agents can't afford to grow their business that way. And I know that's not true. Just from the personal stories that agents have told me, that this has changed their life. 

So the thing I want to say real quick to the audience. Some agents, it's, they gravitate toward one thing. I know agents who have built their business on open houses. They're really good at it. They're into open houses. That's what they do. Great. But then the agents that I'm talking about, they chose to take this tactic that we're talking about, lead generation, online leads, and serving the customers that oftentimes they're online And they can't get anybody to help them.

They can't get anybody to help them. They know what they're looking for. You know what I mean? So she really honed in on it. And that's what. There's riches and niches. And that's what she was [00:30:00] doing. Is this resonating with you? 

Richard Kaiser: Yeah, I think right. So on the third one right around online leads being too complicated there. And I think that's where Shawn's right. So you get your buyer brokerage agreement. Maybe you get it. Maybe in some cases you don't get right. But you got somebody who's six months out, right? You might get some of those people who are in that active nine week home search cycle. You might get some people who are a year out.

Just circumstances can change, right? Very quickly. And I think one of the things quality is very important, right? But there's also a quantity game, right? So in the individual you're talking about had the numbers down. So part of this is understanding that it's a numbers game. And as the numbers expand, right? You've been in a decade, right? Even a few years. You've now got a database hundreds of thousands. And yes, we don't believe you can get rid of The [00:31:00] real estate agent, right? All this stuff Shawn was talking about before, a computer can't do what Shawn was talking about, building that one on one relationship, asking for the sale. Building that relationship. You can't get rid of that.

But what technology can help you do is continue to engage the person, right? So that when they are ready, they raise their hand and you're the first one who knows about. Going back to what we were talking about there. You're in there at the beginning when they go into that active home search mode. And so a lot of people claim, Hey, this is done for you technology. We're going to do it. 

We find, and this is something we see. So we deal more on the B2B side, Shawn and myself, our team. We went out to Gartner for a sales marketing conference earlier this year. The big theme, AI and technology. There've been all these promises with technology and regardless of any sales and marketing team, the constant feedback is technology has made sales [00:32:00] agent, right? People like real estate agents, their lives more complicated, more difficult. Technology is not simplifying their life. And what they need to do, right? Our belief is you still got to work hard. You still got to do all the things you're doing, but we believe technology should simplify your job and have more of your job being talking to agents, right? So how do we enable technology to help you have more one on one conversations with agents? We're never going to get rid, you still got to have the conversations, but how does technology simplify that? 

Todd Sumney: I love that. 

Richard Kaiser: I think that's really what we've found over the past 10 years where things start to change for agents.

Todd Sumney: I love that. And I agree with that because I would say if that's your experience, then you're using the wrong technology.

Shawn Craig: Absolutely. 

Todd Sumney: And absolutely. What you just said, you're using the wrong technology. I know in the agent and the team leader that I was talking about, the technology that you have, made them more efficient. Yeah. It [00:33:00] helped them and it automated certain aspects of the business. So it automated property alerts, the digital assistant, drips and alerts and things like that. There was constant engagement going on. 

Shawn Craig: There is, and let me add to that Todd, because you're absolutely right. So first off for this myth, it can be right. Online leads can be complicated. They can be okay, but that's where you have to have the right technology. Okay. And a lot of people think, Oh, let me go get a CRM. To be honest with you, a CRM is only as good as the leads you put in it. That's it. They're only as good. 

Now, once you got good leads in there, so you got educated homebuyers in there, what you start to have when you have automations built in, like what you just described there, whether it be behavioral based property alerts, which is giving peppering them with properties based on what they care about every day.

What's that doing? They're clicking through and they're coming back to your site. They're not going to Zillow, not going to realtor. [00:34:00] com. They're coming back to you. That's the goal. Because, again, a good CRM is going to be something that helps you move your business forward and helps you make more money. And if it's not making you more money, it's not helping you become more efficient, you're not going to use it. God forbid you have a team and you're putting garbage leads into the CRM, you have very little. There's a very small chance that you're gonna actually get them to use it, right? Because again, they're only gonna use it if it's gonna help them make more money. 

So when you think about a system like what CINC does, right? We've got all this automation that is gonna help you with your future business, right? That now buyer, you're gonna pick up the phone. You're gonna talk to them. You're gonna be working on that deal. The challenge for most real estate agents, especially when they're just getting into this or they're just maybe they've taken a break and now they're getting back into it is that it's hard to be consistent.

Most of the time it's hard to pay your monthly bills. Most people are even struggling to pay their quarterly bills. What you've got to have is a system that's bringing in active, [00:35:00] educated homebuyers into your website. You've got to have the technology in place that is nurturing them and bringing them back on an ongoing basis.

You've got to have some now buyers that you can work now and forget about that future business because you trust the system to do the work so that when you're done with that deal, you now have another one you're working on. And then, as you can see, and I'm sure this is the story that you were, that was shared with you, is that it just became this rolling ball. It just, the momentum built and it seemed...

Todd Sumney: Because someone that used to be a future buyer has worked their way and now they're a new buyer this week. Now they're a now buyer this week. ANd it happens every week. And she showed me like the thing about the technology being complicated.

It was simpler for her because she showed me her dashboard and the system helped her get started every day. Cause it was like, do this call, then do this and send [00:36:00] this message out. Do that. And it was like she could, in her case, in the morning, she did a lot of her transactional communications with her buyers and everything early in the morning. She did some of the work having to do with inspections or paperwork, whatever, early in the morning. And then, midday, she would get right into your system and just go. 

Shawn Craig: And here's the good news. Here's the good news. You get busy. You start selling homes. Why? Because you took, you, you bought a system from a good company who does it right, who generated the right leads, and now you got busy. And then from there let's think about it, right? So everybody hears about AI and Richard was just talking about AI. CINC built, an artificial intelligence, digital messaging solution that we humanized that will work as a digital assistant on behalf of our agents. Now, think about it. What did I mean by humanized? It will use emojis. It'll use gifs. And every now and [00:37:00] then on purpose, it will make a mistake and correct itself. The goal here is, for that digital assistant to be so real, okay, that it's helping agents as they get busy selling homes. I know it sounds crazy. 

All these companies rush to market with an AI because it was hot. What we did was we baked it in the oven for a couple years longer than most so that we could get it just right. And what we knew was that it was going to be based upon our scripts, our teachings. Okay, and it was going to be effective. So now what you're finding is I can show you conversations after conversations where agents had dropped the ball. That the artificial intelligence digital assistant was able to pick it up and was able to make sure that opportunity wasn't lost. And it happened over and over again. 

So yes, technology can be your friend. Technology can help you soar in real estate. But again, it all comes down to the quality of leads. [00:38:00] There's no question, right? A good technology can't function properly if you don't have future home buyers that are coming to your site on an ongoing basis. Just doesn't work. 

Todd Sumney: Wow. I didn't know that you had that. That just seems authentic to me. I've read studies before about sending out marketing pieces with a typo in it, and sometimes the marketing piece with the typo in it actually gets higher results because it's more authentic. It's more real. 

Shawn Craig: Come on, Todd. Look at your thumbs. You got big ones, too, man. You make mistakes like I do. And what do we do? We correct them. An Ai can be no different. And that's the thing, right? Real estate agents are not created equal. Lead generation companies are not created equal. And AIs are not created equal. Bottom line. 

Just because you've tried something in the past doesn't mean that you shouldn't try something else. Because I'll tell you that most of the people that come to us have been referred by other agents, other people [00:39:00] who have had success with CINC. And honestly, those people come to us with a lot of fear, a lot of uncertainty and a lot of doubt around hey, will this work for me? And I think that far lays us directly on into this risk for ROI as being a myth. 

Richard Kaiser: Yeah. And I think back to your point, time is full circle, your original story, right? So she's been doing a decade now and I think really she was talking about, okay, if I do, if I get X many leads, I made X many calls. I get X many appointments that lead to this many buyer brokerage agreements. All of a sudden I start to have a remarkable level of predictability in my business. All of a sudden, okay, so I'll say this right now, like we are the biggest believer in sphere and referrals should be your primary pillar of business.

But what I think a lot of people have found right over the past year and a half or whatnot, [00:40:00] since the market has shifted, is that. It can be scary, right? If you're over, if you're over reliant on that, if you don't have other areas where you have a little more control over your destiny. And I'll say here firsthand experience, we've got a team of 14 reps, right? That we've got to feed here. And so what we find ourselves in situations on is Shawn will come conversation with me. Very friendly always. And you know, Shawn, just like, alright we're halfway hrough like, where's, where are the sales going to come from, Richard?.

And so to me, what I found we follow the market as well, that the organic channels for us have gotten much more variable, in the past few months, and what we've seen is continuing to invest. We invest in Google, right? We put our money where our mouth is as well, that there's a level of predictability and some control over our destiny that we get [00:41:00] that really instills confidence, right? In how our outlook for the future. 

And that's what we've seen the story you shared there. We see that time and time again with the agents we work with. It's invaluable to have some feeling of control of the destiny, right? You can actually, you can control how fast you grow in those first two years, which takes a while to build up your sphere.

Or if you're in the position of the team leader you talked about and you got to hire somebody, You may not have, you may not be able to ramp up your sphere in 30 days, right? But if you know how to leverage online lead gen in the right way, you can strategically lever up your lead flow and your system. You can get somebody up much quicker and let the sphere catch up.

And so all that kind of from us leads into we've been having a lot of conversations about risk, and going into this. And so we've embarked on a new program, right? We've done a lot of [00:42:00] research and analysis around. Shawn can speak much better. 

Shawn Craig: Yeah, I'll talk about it. So Todd, let's go back to the analogy around fish where there are fish. And let's talk about the fact that what you want to do is you want to have a great fishing trip, right? The best way to have a great fishing trip is to have a guide that shows you where all the good fishing spots are, okay? Because you can rest easy that it's going to work out because it will, it'll work out.

So here's the deal, cINC is so confident in the programs that we provide and the leads that we generate that we actually guarantee sales now. Like we guarantee sales. There is no other company in our industry that actually truly will stand behind what they deliver and actually guarantee sales. So we have a risk free program.

So essentially what we do and when you get with us. So if anybody's interested, definitely go out to our website and register for a demo. And what one of my sales team members will do is we'll walk you through a very custom demo, that's very specific to you and very specific to what you're trying to accomplish. And at the end of the day is going to be centered [00:43:00] around helping you make more money because at the end of the day, that's what every one of us want. We want to make more money. It's not just generate a lead. It's not just get a good CRM it's not just put a website up. It's how can we make more money and how can we thrive in this challenging economy?

Our guaranteed sales program is an all inclusive program that will include a website. It will also include the hyper local lead generation to capture educated home buyers, and then it will include our CRM that includes all of our automation. We have packed this thing full with everything that we know a real estate agent needs to have to be successful.

And then here's the deal, we're going to put a guarantee of a minimum number of transactions to ensure that this program is not upside down. The typical investment with CINC on an annual basis, I think comes out to a little under 17, 000. It's going to get you about, I think about 70 or so leads on a monthly basis. And what we're going to do is we're going to make [00:44:00] sure by giving you a guarantee that you're going to close a minimum of two transactions throughout the course of the time to ensure that you are not upside down. 

And again, we've generated 5 million leads. And out of those 5 million leads, we've settled in on an average home sale price of about 400, 000 is what our agents will see. And again, the 400, 000 is right in line when you get to pick and choose where you want to target within your market. You're going to always go towards those higher price points when you can be selective. So when you really think about it, 3 percent of an average transaction of 400, 000 is about 12, 000.

12, 000 times two transactions, you're sitting at 24, 000. If you invested 16, 000, it's a risk free investment. 

Richard Kaiser: And I think the big thing on that is that gets you through that first year of that initial investment, right? Making that with confidence. And we say you have line of sight [00:45:00] into year two and into the six figures. And I think this goes back to your original story. Four years in, right? It's not just about the risk free part of it, right? She wanted to see the upside as well. And so she's now over 600,00 in GCI a year. Going from that, right? So more people can get to the other end of the tunnel where they're seeing well, north of 6 figures in GCI. At the end of the day. That's what it's all about for us. 

Shawn Craig: Here's the deal. For anybody that's on there going. Hey, you're guaranteeing two sales across a year. That's not going to move the needle, you're missing the point. Okay, because here's the deal. The point isn't the two sales. The point is that we know you're going to produce. You will. You've got to do the work and what's most important is the road map that we built. We built this CINC success road map that's going to help you understand who to call, when to call, and how much production do you need to do on your end to get good results.

The two is nothing more than to [00:46:00] ensure the fact that you're not upside down because all too many of you have tried online lead generation in the past and you came up empty. Really empty to the point where you've sold nothing. So what we're saying to you is, that we know you're going to sell more. That's not the point. The point is that we're willing to guarantee to you that you're not going to find yourself upside down as long as you do the work that we're asking you to do. And then not only that, it's about setting yourself up for success. Clearly, you're going to be on the path to a six. Six figure easy GCI in year two and year three. So that's a no brainer. 

Todd Sumney: I want to tell two little stories that drive that home. And, I want to talk to the audience here for a minute. The purpose of this podcast is to inform you. Educate you. I never want to sell you anything. That's not what I'm trying to do here. But I also want to inform you and inform you of the opportunities, inform you of the pros and the cons.

Some of you like vanilla [00:47:00] ice cream. Some of you like strawberry. Some of you like chocolate. You like different things. And I travel around the country and I talked to all different kinds of agents. In this agent's case, I want to tell you her story. It's one of the stories I want to tell. She said she had colleagues in her office that had CRM systems. But they didn't have any of the Google expertise or the media spend aspects that your program has. And she needed to hit the round running faster because of her personal situation. And the analogy that it's like going on a fishing trip with a bunch of buddies and you don't have a guide. Versus you go on a fishing trip and you hire a guide.

She hired a mentor and she hired a guide in your Google experts that helped her hone in on where the fish was. So I just want the audience to realize that, part of the commitment from her to you [00:48:00] was she was looking for that guide to show her where the fish was. And yes, it cost a little more.

She could have gone with a different CRM. And I know other agents that go with that other CRM. They don't have the media spend. They don't have the Google component. So this isn't for everyone. This isn't for all of you. But for many of you, like right now, a hundred of you are missing the opportunity. A hundred of you should pick up the phone right now and have the experience of hiring a fishing guide. Who's going to show you how to do it now. I want to build on that for just a minute. I've also done a lot of marketing classes with some of our top agents and Everyone in the room is like I want to be like that top agent and the top agent is up front telling everyone what they're Doing. And then I would ask the question, how many of you have a budget? And A very small amount would raise their hand and we would go through the dollar amounts. How many of you are spending this on your marketing? How many of you are spending that? 

I come from the ad agency business. You guys live in Atlanta. If the Atlanta [00:49:00] Braves wanted to hire me as an ad agency to double ticket sales, double their business for the Atlanta Braves, they would interview the ad agency. The ad agency would interview Atlanta. They would say, What are you guys doing? What kind of marketing are you doing? Okay, let's talk your budget. And the Atlanta Braves say, I want you to double ticket sales, but we don't have a budget for you. And it would be like, as an ad agency, I would run out of the room. I would not want that client. Because as a marketer, as a business, as an agent, you're a CEO. You're a CMO, a Chief Marketing Officer. You've got to have a marketing budget, and you just have to choose where to spend it, but you have to have something.

And in her case, and I hope I'm not taking it off track From what you guys experience, but in her case, she wanted to put some marketing budget toward a fishing guide teacher where the fish are. Toward a fishing guide that automated some things for her, and it helped her [00:50:00] get there faster. And I guess that to me is one of the things that really stands out with what you do and why she ended up getting ROI.. And your program you're talking about takes the risk out of it. 

Shawn Craig: Yeah but understand this, right? I'd mentioned about 17, 000 on annual basis, and that's a typical client, right?

We can work with budgets from anywhere from about 1000, 1500, 2000. We can work with your budget. The important part is, that you need to spend time...

Richard Kaiser: That's a month. 

Shawn Craig: Yeah. Sorry. Per month. Yeah, absolutely. You need to spend time selling. You don't need to spend time marketing. What you need to be able to do is turn to the pros. And again, we're not some fly by night company around here. We're owned by Fidelity. They're the largest title insurance company in the nation, and to be frank, everything they do is done with excellence. And what you can expect is that everything you're going to get from CINC is just the same. And we're going to help you make more money. That's what we'll do.

Todd Sumney: In her [00:51:00] case with that budget, she got an ROI relatively quickly because your system was... 

Shawn Craig: I don't think it's hard, Todd. Honestly, I don't think, I think that when you really boil it down, it's pretty easy to get a return on investment in real estate. It's pretty easy. I think what it comes down to is can you figure out a way to get a 10 X, a 20 X return on your dollar?

And you definitely can with us. You definitely can. And that's just why we put skin in the game. Again, try to find another real estate lead generation company that guarantees sales, right? It's hard to do. 

Todd Sumney: But did how I described her story, did that resonate to you?

Shawn Craig: I think it's spot on, man. It's one of many stories that we hear all the time. And I was just reading this on a Facebook post earlier today one of our clients described CINC. He says another day, another CINC deal being done. The platform is [00:52:00] basically a dividend stock at this point. Everything invested over the years just keeps spitting out returns. I just love that.

Because again, the leads we generate, some are going to be now buyers and they're going to buy now. But the investment that you make is something that keeps paying for years to come. And her story is fantastic. But again, I think it's down to, you've got a lot of hungry people that are looking to figure out a way that they can not only pay their bills, but thrive in real estate. And I'll tell you that they need a partner that they can trust that will get in it to win it with them. And I think that we're worth at least someone that they should look at. 

Todd Sumney: I agree. I like that. And I guess that's the point that I'm trying to help communicate here is that pick up the phone and explore the options, pick up the phone and sign up for demo and at least learn what it's about.

And yeah. Let's real quick before we get to the last [00:53:00] item real quick, let's what about today? What's going on? You're working with agents every single day in your business right now, this summer. You have stories to tell you and you have a team that you're running, some people are pulling back, other people are doubling down. What do you see right now going on in the summer of 2023 with our topic, what we've been talking about? 

Shawn Craig: Oh, that's a great question. It's a great question. And here's what I'll say. And some may like what I have to say. Some may not. Because I think what happens is that the market is what the market is. I can't tell you anything new that you haven't seen on the news about interest rates. The state of the market is the way it is.

But what I would say to you is shame on you for not taking advantage of a tough market. Because while other people may be saying, Hey, I'm just going to buckle down and I'm going to try to ride this out. That's a mistake. I think deep down in your gut, it's a mistake. [00:54:00] Because I think what you should be doing is that you should be spending a good bit of money, or at least spending some money, to be to capitalize on the opportunity.

Because what we do know is that people are going online to buy homes. What you do know is that the inventory that does pop up in your market is gone just like this. No matter what. Doesn't take long. And what you can decide to do is you can either be the person that sits on the sidelines and waits for it to get better. What if it doesn't? What if this is the new normal. And if it's the new normal you need to adapt. And what you need to do is again, if you're spending money on online lead generation and you've got a process like this, what I would say is trust your process. Don't change anything. It's gonna work out.

But if you don't have anything going on right now, what you need to do is you need to really start to examine your business and decide whether or not, hey should I be trying to capitalize on this market? It is true that people are buying homes. I mean, market trends is pretty straightforward in terms [00:55:00] of the transactions that are happening in every market today. It's still up. Homes are still being bought regardless of the interest rate. And I think we had a good day today with the interest rate. To be honest with you, I think we actually had one of the better days we've had, Richard, didn't we? It's a good day. 

Todd Sumney: I've been to two industry conferences in the last two, two weeks. I'm and I'm getting ready to go to another one coming up really quick here where the economists are getting up on stage. The the economist for the National Association of Realtors, for other large organizations, and I read all of that data every day because I want to be able to help our agents share that information with their clients. And the thing that just is resonating me right now is life is still happening. People are still moving. People still have life events. They have parents who are getting ill and they need to move closer to their parents or move their parents closer to them. Or kids that are getting married and they don't want to [00:56:00] be living with mom and dad anymore when they're married. And it doesn't matter about the interest rate right now from that standpoint of they can't, they don't want to live with mom and dad anymore and they want to own they don't want to rent anymore. So there are people that are looking. To buy. They're looking for help from us real estate agents. And the last number that I still saw is still this year. The lowest number is 4. 4. The higher number I'm seeing 4. 7 million. 4. 4 million to 4. 7 million people still moving this year. 

And so transactions are out there. So fish are out there. And it's just, it's knowing where they are and knowing what they need and helping get them what they need. Do you agree with that concept? 

Richard Kaiser: Yeah. And I think what Shawn was saying is like the opportunity. You can view it that way. And we saw it happened in a much more [00:57:00] magnified time period during the pandemic, where those two or three months nobody had any idea what was going on, but it was for us. It was an interesting, because we were built during the last downturn. And so we were built for a market like this. That's in our DNA of how we as a company will build and how we design a product. But in the pandemic when things were down, what we saw is we saw some people pull back. And we saw some people stay the course and even double down. And nobody knew what was going to happen. I can't forecast the future, but the people who stayed the course saw huge upsides when it came back.

And I think what we're seeing now is right at some point, all this, the pent up demand, right? Those people still live with their parents, right? Where RCO talks about it. The percentage in the U. S. is like a crazy high stat. The number of empty nesters who are staying in their home for prolonged periods of time.[00:58:00] 

That has to work itself out in the market at some point. And right, the people who are prepared for when that plays out are going to be handsomely rewarded in the market. And so none of us know when that is, but are you setting yourself up for a good scenario there? And there's still opportunities in the market. What we're seeing is the average move time in the past two or three years used to be less than, 10 miles. And it's now like 7-10x that, right? That's never happened in the history of the real estate market. And so people who are good at online real estate lead generation figured out it's really hard to get a referral from somebody if you're in Florida from New York. But if you know how to do online real estate leads, like you've got a huge competitive advantage over them. We're seeing there are still opportunities like that out there of people who are looking for it. Instead of just getting into the doom and gloom. And so I think the mindset really plays a [00:59:00] role.

Todd Sumney: And I agree with you. And that's what I was trying to say that there are a lot of transactions happening right now still this year. And you know it and it's exactly what you're talking about the people that have figured out online leads have figured out how to be the ones to help those buyers and sellers. That's what I was trying to communicate. I hope that's what came through because I think I agree with you. I think that, they're gonna they're gonna win. And they're also going to be poised if transactions pick back up. 

But, Loved our talk today. I wanna tell everyone real quick where to go to get connected. HomeSmart agents, if you go to CINCPro.com/HomeSmart there's a special landing page right there for you and it says CINC Plus HomeSmart, request a demo. Four simple little questions: first name, last name, phone number, email. You can sign [01:00:00] up for a demo. You can reach out to call the team. And then there's information talking about things we've been talking about the day the hyper local leads. Real estate tools are one thing, but closing leads is another. All kinds of information there on that page. 

And then I also love some of the stories just on your main website. Especially some of the stories from agents in year one, year two, or team leaders talking about their specifics. So it's not just the stories I told. There are teams and agents all around the country who, as I travel around, how I discovered you years ago, many years ago, was I had many agents tell me, my secret, I work with CINCPro, I work with Commissions, Inc., but I don't want anybody else to know. And that's why I get a little passionate about this topic because, I just know so many of them that have had such success, so I'll quit talking now. Any [01:01:00] final thoughts on our four myths today? We busted them, right? And any final comments you want to add?

Richard Kaiser: It's been a pleasure, man. 

Todd Sumney: Awesome. What's a phone number real quick? If someone wanted to reach out by phone, 

Richard Kaiser: let me make sure I get you the right number. 

Todd Sumney: All right. I didn't mean to put you on the spot there, but but here, up on the screen for those that are on YouTube, you'll see the screen right here that if you go to CINCPro.com/HomeSmart right there. You can also log into RealSmartAgent, log into our marketplace area, get connected with their team as well. 

Richard Kaiser: 770 970 9222. That's 770 970 9222. And then you can also email us at sales@cincpro.com. But I'd say go to the link you said and that's going to be the best way to get in touch with us.[01:02:00] 

Todd Sumney: So I feel like we've really set the stage for the benefits and the tactics and that agents can apply these tactics, to their business right now. But if you could, real quick, maybe just take five minutes for those that are still sticking around. I have the website pulled up. Can you just give a quick overview of some of the structure of CINCPro again? Like, all in one real estate lead generation system. Give a quick overview. Three minutes. Just about what all the system provides. Just the bullet points. Details.



Shawn Craig: Oh, is that my time to shine? We definitely appreciate the request. So think about it this way, right? So CINC is a complete system. It's an all in one solution that will consist of a website. It will also consist of the hyper local lead gen that we talked about in terms of our focus on educated home buyers. What we're going to do is we're going to work closely with you to understand what are the neighborhoods and school districts and other points of interest that you care to target. Once [01:03:00] we've done that, we're going to put together our marketing campaigns and start attracting the right people to CINC. And then, in addition to that, you start getting to our CRM, which is really a conversion platform. So when you think about it, the system's going to include a number of things that would be our artificial intelligence. It will also include our behavioral based messaging. We also have some very cool behavioral based property alerts that are really cool because they focus in not only on the relevance of what someone's searching for, but also on the timing of delivery of those in someone's inbox. We have the ability to identify when are they in there so we can serve those property alerts up at the precise right time, which is cool.

And then I think what it comes down to is working closely with our team. We have a support team here where you're gonna work closely with an account manager. You're gonna know their name. They're gonna know yours. You're gonna have access to their calendar. And not only that, you're gonna have their direct line number.

So I think that when you really think about CINC, you [01:04:00] need to think about the fact that you're getting into business with someone who truly cares. And I know I said it earlier, but we're in it to win it with you. And I think that what you'll find is that when you, approach us, and again, don't make any rash decision, right?

Come to us. Let us explore your market with you. Let us talk you through this. And let us make sure that this is indeed a good fit. And if we find that it's a good fit, let us help you make some money. That's what we're here to do. 

Todd Sumney: Love that. Richard, Shawn, I really appreciate your time here today. I'm sure the agents have gotten a lot of valuable information. Richard, any final thoughts from you? 

Richard Kaiser: No, nothing else, Todd. I really appreciate your time. It's, been fun to talk through some different things with you. 

Todd Sumney: Awesome. Everyone, I hope you've enjoyed today's episode really about myth busting some of the myths about lead gen and online leads. But more importantly, I think it's more, it's the opposite of myth busting. It's showing the [01:05:00] opportunities that online lead gen and CINC pro can provide to you and can really set you up for success. Shawn, that was a great short description just a second ago about what you do. Thank you for that.

And agents, I just hope that you'll take some of these ideas, these tactics, apply them to your business and, keep growing, keep putting yourself out there, keep serving clients and grow your business and just do the right things. Thank you. Thank you for being here with us today. This has been our episode here on the real estate podcast.

We'll see you back on future episodes. Thanks for joining. 

All right, you real estate podcast listeners here. We just did a session real quick about titled myth busting for myths and concerns regarding online leads. And we really showed how there are myths about online leads. And there are actually falsities that are really [01:06:00] opportunities, for you to take.

And after we ended the podcast, we actually stayed around and I talked with, Shawn Craig, with commissions, Inc. little bit more and there were a couple little golden nuggets in what we talked about. So I'm going to do something unusual. Never done this on an episode before, but here's the conversation after the conversation for those of you that stuck around here till the end, maybe you can take away some extra golden nuggets about what we talked about, about lead gen. I hope you apply it to your business. See you back on future episodes, Todd.

Shawn Craig: We just appreciate the opportunity to come on here and talk. In all honesty, man, this is a truly great company that we work for. Like I mean it is. Like I mean I've worked for some companies in the past that just you know, they didn't have the right integrity and they didn't do what's in the best interest of the customer, but Frankly, here at CINC, we do, and it works. 

Todd Sumney: I know you do, because other companies they'll go sell the leads three, four, five, eight times and then it's a bad [01:07:00] experience for the consumer, it's a bad experience for the agent. And you guys don't do that, and you really are that secret that agents tell me, don't tell anybody else. This is what I'm doing. That's what they do. 

Shawn Craig: Agents are great poker players. They're super players, man. They keep their cards really close to their chest. They'll tell everybody about what they're doing except for what's really working. Exactly. They do. 

Todd Sumney: Exactly. That's so true. That's what I was hoping was getting across today. And, the woman I was telling you about, she was in such a situation, she didn't have time. She didn't have time to waste, like she had to start earning right away. And you guys helped her do that, and so that's why I know it's such a true, story, but... 

Shawn Craig: Todd, if we could get real estate agents to pick up the phone and call our leads, more of them would have success. And I'm just telling you that it's... I don't understand how some of these agents will spend the money that they do when they do spend it, and then still not put in any [01:08:00] work. Like they truly think that things are just, if someone's going to call them, they're going to call them and want to use them as a real estate agent. However, they've never heard of them before. 

So I just, I manage the sales team and frankly, sales is hard. Okay. It's hard. All sales people are not created equal. Some people work and some people don't. And some people are humble and they're coachable and some people are not. And that's the way it is. And some of the people, and here's the deal, man, if we get no one that responds, it's okay. We appreciate the opportunity to even come on here and talk to you about it. We'll do it again, and we'll do it again, and we'll do it again until we get it right. And then we get a response. We'll bang it in their head and we'll do it.

We got money to spend on marketing. We might as well spend it where it's best spent. And honestly, this was great. I will tell you, I'm more prone to a webinar versus podcast. I know you like podcasts, they're great. I like showing things. Painting pictures and all this and that. But that's what we do, [01:09:00] right? So real estate agents want to see things in a lot of cases. But heck man, I'm game for this man. If they let me do another one of them.

Todd Sumney: No I, actually loved everything that you had to say and I would love to do another one with you down the road.